Maybe it's time to try E85

I'm thinking it may be time to try E85. 2015 Tundra 5.7l Flex fuel engine. 6/6/22, E85 is 2.77/gal and E10 is 4.49. The numbers seem to support the mileage difference.

 

Wish we still had that spread. Regular gas is 5.19 but they're selling e85 for 4.69 so it's not worth it. Kinda sucks as I really like how well the engine runs on it.

Easy math for those with flex fuel trucks that want to compare. Cost at pump / mpg you anticipate = approx cost per mile

 

Don't do it!

Go to fuelly, search for your year and model and scroll through the owners mileage. When I did that the average was 14, the flex fuel vehicles were mostly 12, so if you took those out what would the average be...

I ONLY put non ethanol in all my gas stuff, yes it IS more expensive than the gubment subsidized failed corn gas. Another note, when my Stihl chainsaw was new it wouldn't work/start, the tech said "you use regular gas don't you?" "Don't do that!, use non ethanol or the $30 a gallon Stihl gas. Since I started using non ethanol the chainsaw always starts and runs better. When I tried it the first time on a 2008 Chrysler Pacifica on a road trip we got 2 more MPG.

 

Don't forget to consult your manual when running E85. Oil change interval is reduced requiring more frequent oil changes. Ethanol is corrosive and attracts water.

 

We dont even have non ethanol gas anywhere around Massachusetts or Southern NH

 

Yeah, got to factor in the cost of an extra oil change at 2500 miles. And the E85 isn't particularly good for the engine long term. No thanks.

 

Site for looking for Ethanol free gas https://www.pure-gas.org/

 

Fortunately I have a station nearby that has ethanol free. I use it in all my 2 cycle stuff and mix my own. Ethanol will eat up those little clear hoses. My lawn tractor is designed to handle E10 and runs fine on it.

 

I used to think the same but I've seen some videos that show ethenol cleaning the hell out of the inside of the engine. Definitely true about the oil though, it contaminates it faster. I dont even have a flexfuel or E85 near me so I have no real experience, just YouTube videos of projectfarm.

I was on there the other day, its super outdated, at least for my area, most of the places are not open anymore.

 

It's worked well in my area, updating does seem lacking, but I think it may have to do with user input.. Many pumps are labeled "recreational", "unbranded" fuel..E free is all I use in my boat, lawn equipment, generators etc. Sometimes that's all that is available at certain pumps 90 Octane or higher. Our SUV requires 91 Octane or higher, Turbo,, yup...

 

It’s a corrosive solvent, of course it’ll clean off all the carbon. A coke will make a penny shiny again too, doesn’t mean it’s good for you. This also goes for those who pin open their engine thermostat. Cooler isn’t always better.

 

Out here they brand having no ethanol as a bad thing. It works too. Had a guy come up to me and give me a lecture about it. His evidence? “Did you see the sign man?”

 

Tundras do not switch between the two well. I ran several tanks as a trial in my 2015. Then I found myself at the dealership getting the computer corrected. The truck was very hard to start. Something to do with the alcohol density not correctly adjusting back to gasoline. There is a tsb out for this.

I would say away.

 

Cooler will lower your MPGs. Mine always runs lower in colder temps and it is not winter fuel as some claim. In cooler weather before they switch fuels I see a decrease.

 

Denser air, more fuel.

I call Cold Air Intakes Hot Air Intakes because most are great at robbing you of power but also increasing your mpg as a result of being less cool than the OEM design

 

My Husqvarna Rancher does not give a sh*t what I put into it. Home Depot's Echo basically does not start on E10, especially in winter, so I had to buy a good chainsaw.

 

Yeah but you get a cool see through box!

*select models only

 

Aside from all of the absolutely correct information about how horrible ethanol is, E85 = 85 octane. (Ok that's not true. Brain fart moment. But I'm going to leave this here for the rest of the info which is true) The engines in the Tundras do much better on high octane fuel. While the engine CAN run on lower octane fuels, it does so by retarding timing a significant amount to avoid engine knock/detonation. The engines run much better with proper timing at higher octane ratings, with 93 being about as close to 0 degrees as you are going to get.

If you aren't sure why retarding your timing is a bad thing, it causes the spark plug to fire later in the compression stroke, which results in incomplete combustion of the fuel, reduced power, reduced efficiency, increased emissions, and increased cylinder wear.

If you don't want to take it from me, take it from the guys at DAP tuning who know more about these engines than the Toyota engineers.

https://daptuning.com/faqs

"As we have reported with every truck we have tested on, 4.6L, 4.7L, 5.7L, all run best on 91+ octane whether they are completely stock with stock tune, or tuned. These engines pull 8-12 degrees of timing due to knock retard on 87 oct, 6-10 deg on 89oct, 2-6 deg on 91oct, and 0-2deg on 93oct. That is on a completely stock truck with factory tune.
If you care about the engine in your $35,000-$65,000 truck as you think you do, you wont run anything but premium in it weather you are tuned or not tuned."

 

Alcohol has a very high octane rate, way above 100. Doubt if 15% gasoline even brings it down to 100.

 

Just to add to what @vtl said, ethanol actually has an extremely high octane rating and is why many high performance engines run E85 or E100 since it's cheap, has very high octane, and the engine will run cooler. It's actually very good from a performance stand point.

 

Tundra runs good on 87. Runs a million miles. Running a full 38 gallon tank of 93 yielded no extra performance nor better MPG for me. Which I can understand, because the pedal is electronic and the throttle is controlled by ECU. Until you start to race the engine, there's no extra power coming from 93 gas.

In fact, the only time I really noticed 87 is worse than 93, it was way up north in Canada, where they only sell a regular gas and diesel. I was driving a turbo car, with too much cargo in and on it, and could not pass a truck on highway as easy as it usually happens on 93. Looking at gauges, the ECU chopped boost in half to deter engine knocks.

 

Christ you are right. I don't know what I was thinking. I knew that. Total brain fart moment.

I'm going to blame the fact that I've been awake for 42 hours.

 

It's not about power. It is about efficiency and longevity. If you are running 87 octane, you are prematurely wearing out your engine, regardless of how it "feels" to drive.

 

Yeah, I messed that up. But the fact remains that ethanol is terrible stuff. If I had the time and the space to do it, I'd build a setup that removes ethanol from gas. It's pretty simple really..

 

For further reference, per this site:

The chance of E-85 having an octane level below 93 is very slim. This is because ethanol has an octane rating of 100 – 113. For simplicity, the ethanol we use has an octane rating of 100.

Manufacturers of gasoline then have to mix this with regular or premium gasoline with an octane rating between 87 – 95. Our ethanol has 49% regular gasoline with an octane of 87 and 51% ethanol with an octane of 100.

(49% x 87) + (51% x 100) = gasoline with an octane rating of 93,63. In other words, it’s impossible (or at least very unlikely) for E-85 to have an octane rating below 93.

Given that scientific research, I still won't run my truck on e85.

 

For those that don't know of him yet, excellent source of Toyota/Lexus actual experience.

https://youtu.be/1OFV8gpxAxI

 

So, 2 million miles on 93 then?

I doubt it will die prematurely from running on 87. About 2 years ago I split apart two turbo engines, same model, from same car model, same mileage around 220k. One was cherished with always premium gas, synthetic oil (Amsoil Signature, Red Line) and short intervals, the other was cheapest gas, long oil change intervals, crappy oil, etc. The "good" engine died because of mechanical failure, the "bad" was still running. Apart from seeing a lot more cylinder bore and piston rings wear in "bad" engine due to subpar oil used, I saw no gas-related difference. ECU takes the octane rating in account and detune engine to basically eliminate wear. Both engines had the same set and level of wear problems, from turbo, to valves, to bores, to catalytic converter. And this is a turbo engine, which can easily push one more atmosphere into intake.

Oh, actually the "good" engine had lot more dried cement-like deposits in intake channels, around injectors nozzles, in fuel rail, due to much richer additives content in premium gas. Doubt that is good for injectors or anything else in the engine. Exhaust valves were pitted badly, too. Nothing like that in "bad" engine, but that could be an effect of worn valve stem seals and high calcium content in Red Line.

 

Ethanol is used as an octane booster around here. All of our ethanol free gas is 87. When I had a modded Mercury Black Max I had to run premium E10 with 93 octane rating. I had 140+ compression in each cylinder. When I did run ethanol free I had to add octane booster.

 

More than one variable be it ethanol, octane, etc will ultimately determine the life of an engine. People tend to get laser focused on one variable.

I'm not a big fan of the boutique engine oils.