Ford quality - uh oh.

There have been a number of articles published recently about changes that will be made by Ford's new CEO, Jim Farley because warranty costs at Ford have rapidly increased. According to a recent company press release, in Q2 2020, warranty costs rose to 4.3% of revenues versus about 2% a couple of years earlier, so the trend is very bad and steep.

To put all this in perspective, a $60,000 F-150, based on the company average, could be expected to incur slightly more than $2,400 in warranty claims. That seems pretty big, especially since warranty work is billed out by the dealer to the factory at much reduced labor rates and parts costs.

I haven't looked to see what Ford's normal profit margins are, but many businesses only produce income in the neighborhood of 5% of revenues, so 4.3% warranty expense is HUGE compared to expected profits. Small improvements or reductions in warranty costs are large relative to planned profit. The CEO says he will tackle quality problems to drive warranty expenses down.

So lots of anecdotal evidence about Ford quality issues is now confirmed by Ford's headquarters. The story also mentioned that they had some time ago abandoned the "At Ford, quality is job one" commitment they made over 20 years ago in favor of short-term profits. One item specifically mentioned is that incoming quality inspections of vendor produced parts was stopped some years ago to save the labor expense of examining incoming parts.

We can be happy we own Toyota products without this level of problems. Let's hope Toyota never gives in to the desire for short term profits at the expense of quality. It's pretty amazing that the F150 is the #1 selling vehicle in the USA despite all of Ford's quality problems. It shows the power of marketing and brand loyalty I suppose.

 

I only skimmed that story when it came out last week so I might have this wrong but it seems like Ford is trying to blame their suppliers for all their reliability issues and push the responsibility onto them.

 

No, you have it right. I mention that in the next to last paragraph - about Ford giving up on vendor parts incoming inspection. It seems for the past several years that Ford has developed some real problems that they can't get right.

 

I just have a hard time believing their problems are all due to faulty vendor parts.

 

You have probably heard the old story about the new CEO who finds 3 envelopes in his desk drawer on day 1 in the new job. The first envelope says, "Open this envelope when you miss your profit forecast". At the end of year 1 when the company comes up short on its forecast, and the board is unhappy, so he opens the first envelope. It says, "Blame the VP of Sales", which he does and the board gives him until next year to straighten it out. Next year, he misses the forecast again and the board is getting really upset at him now, so he opens envelope #2. It says, "Blame the Chief Financial Officer." He gets another year to fix it. At the end of year three, things haven't improved and he's worried what the board will do next, so he opens envelope #3. It says, "Make 3 envelopes."

So yes, I don't think Ford can blame this strictly on the vendors.

 

That's what I would do, it's always a good look.

 

Correct. Toyota also get vendor parts, but they have a top QC process, so it all works together, as we all know.

At work (construction company, so we all drive trucks) we have about an equal split between Ford, Chevy and Tundra. About 3 or 4 of each. Only 2 Dodges, of which one was just traded for a Chevy. All of them have had warranty work done, one Ford had the engine rebuilt at 30,000 miles, Chevies had transmissions replaced while still under warranty, except for the Tundras; neither one of us had any significant warranty work done. So this is not just a "me and my buddy" comparison, but multiple of each and consistent outcome.

 

Ford circled the problem right out the factory (maybe oval) but it’s name is circled.

 

Ha, well seems they did their due diligence during durability testing/verification prior to release...

 

Your anecdotal evidence definitely bears out what Ford is reporting.

By the way, congratulations on your low "badge number". I just noticed that you are member #84 in the list of people who were signed up for this forum - wow. How many others that early are still here?

 

Also typical of purchasing from the lowest bidder. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

In fairness, I didn't get the impression from what I read that Ford is blaming only the vendors and taking no responsibility themselves. Their failure to inspect incoming parts was cited as one example of how they got into the quality/warranty mess they are now in.

 

Ford should be setting the specs for their parts. Just as an example, let's say Ford outsources their pistons to Mahle. Ford is going to give specs and what they are looking for as far as material, quality, etc.... It is then up to Ford to make sure it meets spec.

At my place of employment we have 23 Ford vehicles.


5 F-150 (2-2.7, 2-3.5, and 1-5.0)
6 F-250
9 F-450
1 F-350
2 F-750

We have 5 of these trucks that are 2014-2016. All the rest are 2017 to 2020. I can tell you that in average we are well over the $2,400 per truck starting with the trucks in 2017. There was a clear drop off on all platforms starting in 2017. As an upper management and CPA that is paid to make decisions, we will not be buying anymore Fords. Our mechanics are die hard Fords but even they have woukd not buy a Ford right now.

We also own

6 - GMC 1500 Denali
2- GMC 2500 Denali
1 - GMC 3500 Denali
2 - Chevy 2500 HD (6.0 gas)

Other than small things and broken motor mounts in the 6.2 motor, these trucks have been in another level as far as operating costs. Minuscule compared to Fords. They see a lot of miles and same usage as the Fords. They all have between 65k to 320k miles on them.

We also have 2 Tacoma part runner trucks that see a lot miles and have been great. I actually just bought an SR Tundra to replace one of our F-150.


Also, in our western division we purchased 5 new 3/4 ton trucks. 3 Ford's with new 7.3l gas engines, and 2 new Chevy's with new 6.6l gas. Seeing if we can get away from diesel costs and upkeep and they are the guinea pigs. I can tell you that in the Ford 7.3 it is a very known problem already but can't keep ignition coil wires in them. They miss and spit. Ford knows about problem and recall will probably come but no parts availability. One rear end went out on the truck (covered by warranty, 1.5 weeks down time). 2 of the Fords are now leaking at what we think is the oil pan.

The Chevy 6.6 have not had a single problem. They are worked daily hauling crews and the occasional skid steer. No problems in either with between 20-30k miles. Does not tow as well in heavier loads, 10k plus but a much more reliable and cheaper platform and the guys prefer the Chevy's over the Ford.

Take it for what it is worth. The domestics seem to go through highs and lows more often. Ford is really struggling right now and GM seems to have improved. Hate to say it but Ram has improved also.

 

Edit: knoxville36 beat me to it.

The buck stops with Ford. Ford writes specifications for outsourced materials and parts and quality assurance inspections that should be conducted in-house, either approved and/or not approved.

 

Now this is some real deal data. Thank you!

 

Which generation are your 11 older GMs?

 

I won't buy a Ford truck. The last 2 F150s I had were 1998 and 2001, which both, BTW...were good trucks. Successive years with cam phasor problems, blown spark plugs and severe issues with the EcoBoost engines, oh...and let me mention the 9-10 speed transmissions which are a real source of issues with customers. Also, I've read of late of customers having issues with the dash lifting/separating.

It is not just Ford. I have a 1st generation Ridgeline. Yes, its an ugly looking vehicle but it is totally reliable and drives like a car. I used to frequent the Ridgeline forums when they starting building the 2nd generation trucks and guess what? The quality of the 2nd generation vehicle fell off a cliff! I think automakers get greedy and start cutting corners and reliability suffers. What they don't understand is eventually customers will go elsewhere. Right now I believe customers have no where else to go. Maybe the new Tundra will change all that...

 

I hope that's just someone's opinion and not a fact. If it is a fact, why would anyone buy a Ford?

Ram was rated #1 for 2019....and I believe for 2020 too.

 

My buddy got a 2020 Ram 2500 less than 4 months ago. It has had 3 warranty trips, and a rear window slider issue that cannot be fixed lol.

He came from a 2020 Tundra and still regrets going to the Ram.

 

Maybe I am mistaken, but I believe Ford's F-150 has been the #1 selling vehicle in the USA for decades.

 

Too late brah, new transmissions are already poised to grenade and kill the occupants and nearby bystander of new Tundras. RECALL 2019 and 2020 TUNDRAS!

 

Hope Ford doesn’t have to do an extensive fuel pump recall.

 

Personal testimony. I have had a new Ford every 2 years for the last 20 years (company car). That’s a total of 10 cars. Only one has been trouble free. Most develop a major issue at around 65000 to 80000, usually involving a $1200 to $1900 repair that is out of warranty. That’s why every car for my family and paid for out of my own pocket says Toyota on the back. The build quality and design of the Fords is excellent, but the reliability is their weakness. If you drive 15000 to 20000 miles a year and trade every 2 years, buy a ford. But if you drive a vehicle for 10 years or more (like me), you’ll be better off with the Toyota.

 

1500

2-2013
1-2015
2-2017
1-2018

2500

1-2016
1-2017

3500

1-2015

The 2 2013 Denalis have 300k miles on them and will be replaced early this next year. Nothing wrong with them, they are driven everyday but they are getting up there in miles. Denalis are basically a 70k truck.....

We are thinking about going with a truck like mine for replacement. Sure you lose mileage, but they are $20k cheaper. Looking at Chevy LT package with 6.6 gas. As long as you get the all-star package and convenience II package they are close to an LTZ. Still short of Denali, but our guys are fine with that. The trucks have MSRP of about $56k but with factory incentive and a dealer willing to work with you, they can be had for about $48k plus tax. We would save some money up front obviously, but mileage would suffer accordingly.

In my place of employment, I am the guinea pig here..... So far I am loving my 2500hd

 

Mine says “Toyota” on the front, “Tundra” on the back!

 

Love that black 2500, especially with those wheels and grille.

 

From what I can glean from the GM Trucks forum, the 2007-2013 GMs were a bit more reliable than the 2014-2018s and so far it seems like the 2019+ trucks might be a bit worse, though time will tell for sure, obviously.

 

Probably because they have short life spans

 

I've ranted on multiple threads here already about my 2016 F-150, but another key issue I had was the horrible relationship dealerships give their customers. I went through two dealerships trying to get all my issues fixed. One couldn't have cared less and the other kept pushing back on my issues because "Ford won't pay us to troubleshoot the problem".

I have no doubt the new head-dick is just posturing to the stock market and trying to get the stock price up. If they cut costs, they'll continue to stick it to the suppliers and reduce payouts to dealerships for warranty work. At the end of the day, quality will continue to drop and dealerships will not be able to afford the repairs but FoMoCo will have "reduced warranty costs".

And really only the consumer loses in this scenario.

 

Every make will have their share of recalls some more than others. Cough Ford cough.
I say this as I’m sitting at the dealer getting my fuel pump replaced under warranty due to the recall on my FJ