Dealer ruined rack & pinion during ball joint replacement - How to address

Morning all, figured I'd seek out some advice from the group here as I've got a unique-to-me situation w my local dealer.

I've got a 2014 Tundra w SPC UCAs and BJs. After a routine oil change last month, I noticed a clunk in my suspension that I narrowed down to a bad upper BJ on the driver side. The dealer did their typical MPI, and missed the BJ entirely, so I called them up and got scheduled today for them to be replaced, having the SPC BJs on hand....no biggie I figure.

Drop the truck off, they call and confirm that the BJ is bad, and they'll R&R both sides, alignment after, and I should be OK. During that call, I get told that the rack and pinion has a seep, not a leak, so they want me to be aware and track the issue, but its good to go, and no need for immediate service.

About 30 mins after that call, the service advisor calls back and sheepishly explains that while trying to remove the tie rod ends from the knuckle in order to replace the BJs, they have ruined the rack and pinion and it is completely seized up and inoperable at this point. Cost to R&R is $2500 ish. I need the truck back on the road, so I tell them to order the parts and do the work.

I let the SA know that I'll need to chat w someone higher up the chain to figure out how to address the issue that I went from having a working R&P to a seized and trashed one, and he said he'd let his manager know and we could discuss it all when I picked the truck up. No problem w the SA; he was polite and doing his job well, so no frustration w the dealer there.

What I'd like to get y'all's opinions on is what is a reasonable ask as far the rack and pinion R&R is concerned. Dealer covers the cost entirely? I cover labor, they cover parts? We split the cost?

Any insight and suggestions would be appreciated.

 

They admitted to damaging it. They should pay to replace it. I’ve had this happen before with vehicles and never had an issue with the dealer paying for it.

Do you have to remove the tie rods just to replace an upper ball joint? I wouldn’t think you do.

 

I’m impressed they’re owning up to it. It’s on them to replace—parts and labor.

 

You just won the free R&P lottery IMHO.

Good luck.

 

They owe you a new rack free and clear.

 

They broke it, they buy it. Simple as that.

 

Forgot to mention, while the vehicle is down, they are also on the hook for a loaner with no out of pocket cost to you other than gas.

 

This is why I refuse to take my vehicles to a dealer, unless its a warranty issue. What type of mechanic needs to take off the tie-rods to replace the UCA ball joint? The SPC ball joint are like so easy to replace, no need to remove the UCA at all. Remove wheel, un-bolt balljoint from spindle, support spindle, remove BJ, install new BJ, reinsert spindle to BJ and install wheel. I would be pissed and wouldn't pay a dime. To top it off I would want an explanation as to why they messed with the tie-rods.

 

They broke it before the first call. The "seep" was bait for you to OK replacement of the rack they just broke.

 

Looks like a fairly unanimous opinion from everyone; appreciate the feedback on it.

I'll chat w their CS person today; she's been good to work w in the past with some other minor issues the dealer has had in the past.

 

Findlay? Like everyone else said, they broke it, they buy it. Not sure how you can damage a rack while doing an upper balljoint, and you don't even have to take the tie rod off the spindle to do the job. Sounds like the person working on it didn't know what they were doing.

 

Yep, Findlay here in Flag.

Still trying to wrap my brain around the rack and pinion damage after watching several vids on the topic; hopefully they have an explanation for me.

 

I have been thinking about this a bit and think if they say anything but here's your loaner, it will be ready in X # of days, sorry, I'd say (courteously) I need to see the GM & explain to him you brought your vehicle in for a simple repair and they broke a part that really should not have been touched.

Please give me a loaner until the repair is done. Anything but ok/sorry/here ya go I'd say Excuse me, I need to call Toyota USA & create a case as they have a dealer breaking customers' vehicles and not taking responsibility.

And I'd show him this:

How do I complain to Toyota USA?

Need Further Assistance?

1. Phone/Fax. Phone: 800-331-4331. Fax: 310-468-7814. Mon-Fri: 8:00 a.m. – 8:00 p.m. ET. Sat: 9:00 a.m. – 7:00 p.m. ET. ...
2. Send a Message. Submit an online request and we'll get back to you soon.
3. Postal Mail. Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. P.O. Box 259001. Plano, TX 75025-9001.

Good luck!

 

After only dealing w their service advisor, I emailed their Customer Satisfaction Manager detailing my concerns and heard back from the Fixed Operations Director. His explanation was that in order to perform the alignment post ball joint replacement, they had to be loosened, and that even after liberal application of heat and lube, they were still seized up, and thus the rack and pinion was trash. I dont buy the "significant amount of time" that was spent on the process, as I had calls from the SA less than 30 mins apart,

At this point, they're offering "at cost" parts and labor of only $1500, which still doesnt sit right w me, so I'll see what his response is from there. May have to call Toyota Corp. and go from there, but I'll give the dealer the opportunity to correct the issue first.

 

They're offering to fix it if you pay them $1500?

It was fine when you dropped it off. They ruined it. I'd be incredulous to say the least if they wanted me to pay a single dollar to fix their mistake.

Scorched earth response is starting to seem very appropriate...

 

If your truck only service at dealer, that’s dealer fault tighten the tie rod end too tight.

 

They called you a couple of times so they could clearly get ahold of you. If “after liberal application of heat and lube, they were still seized up” they decided not to call to let you know of the issues and instead break it, it’s on them.

 

Some correct me if I am wrong but if alignment is perfect and all you do is replace the upper ball joint, why would the toe be off. SPC upper ball joints are adjustable and would throw off camber. Replace BJ and throw it on the alignment machine to bring the camber back into specs.

 

Still don't see how doing anything to the outer tie rods could cause that kind of damage. I'd love to hear them explain how a human being trying to loosen the outer tie rod end puts any significant force on the rack, let alone enough to destroy it?

This seems to be the Findlay Toyota way of doing things: they have a rookie mechanic screw up something simple, and then some manager comes out with a very technical sounding excuse that would probably fool a soccer mom but doesn't make any sense to someone that knows about cars.

 

Camber move the wheel in and out
Caster move the wheel forward and back
Everything throw off toe

 

Alignment after suspension component replacement, yes. Toe included, yes. R&P fubar? I'm not a mechanic but I think I know enough to say seized tie rod ends during alignment shouldn't result in R&P destruction. Worst case, call the customer and recommend changing the inner and outer tie rods due to inability to loosen jam nut (unrealistic as that sounds). Perhaps in doing that, without customer consent they found major seal leak? But still, why were they in there?

 

Agreed on your thought process there. No issues with paying for the alignment. But the R&P being "Seized up and inoperable" after trying to remove a TRE doesnt make sense. Outer TR, inner?

And frankly, would have been entirely OK with receiving a call along the lines of "hey, we're having difficulty in removing the TREs, and if we arent successful, does mean that we have to consider R&R the R&P." Its really the entirety of the situation and the previous visit leading to this one, and how the situation was handled that just doesnt sit well in the least.

I've contacted Toyota Corp and got the ball rolling on that side of things, and responded to their email and will give them the opportunity to address it in a satisfactory way before I become more irritated. The whole situation doesnt engender trust in their techs though.

 

They completely fubar'd the R&P by beating on the OUTER tie rod? I can see if they were trying to get the inners off maybe, but I would love to know what the tech was doing.

Do not pay $1500. They messed up, it's on them. I've watched a dealer do whole long blocks because a tech messed up during an engine install. They can eat the cost, they just don't want to.

 

Caster and camber is controlled from the LCA, it wasn't touched. Camber on the SPC UCA is adjustable by sliding the BJ in the UCA slot. Toe is controlled by the end links. My thought is, if LCA and end links aren't touched and alignment was fine, then swap BJ out and readjust camber. I really don't see how toe will be off if you just replace the UCA BJ. Technically you should be able to get back into alignment specs. The same should apply if you replace the BJ on a OEM UCA. Unless I am missing something.

 

Quite frankly I don't trust techs at all. Todays techs, unless its an old-timer or someone that is really into mechanics, are useless. From what I understand they start out as lube techs and we all know that they came fubar a simple oil change. I have had my fair share of minor issues with techs, and by minor, I mean shit that is obvious but they don't care. I sure hope that pay for they issues they caused.

 

What’s the difference between UCA or LCA, once the camber and or caster moved, the toe move…

 

I had Findley in Prescott change my trans fluid and they left the fill plug loose to where it was about to fall out. Their service and attitude was complete crap.

 

But the LCA wasn't touched therefore toe isn't affected. Removing the BJ from the UCA that only affects camber and can't affect toe. Might it affect toe for the time being, yes. But once you re-align the camber the toe should be where it was originally. Like I said, if you where to take the stock BJ out of a OEM UCA and replace it, why would your toe move? Nothing changed. Either way, they fubared his truck, I think and should pay.

 

Dave hope you dont use these guys...

 

The point is, it’s not factory UCA, aftermarket have bigger tolerance, and in alignment we are talking small changes will have a big effect on handling and tire wear. 1/16 toe in per side for lifted truck, with zero toe, the truck wants to track on bumps, 1/16 toe out inner tire wear, ¼ toe out will destroy a tire in months.