Crazy Prices

I don’t want that junk for free lol

 

I'm in on this.
Apologize for my contributions to the derail.

What I really want to know is who is paying 95k for the souped up TRD rav 4? that is crazy!

 

Question is ....would you pay it again? I for one dont give a rats Azz if thats what I want and can get it now at a premium. My big brother on the other hand brings crap home from the dump.

 

Toyota didn’t do anything. Every dollar you have is worth less than it was before 2020 because there are billions more dollars now in circulation. So now it takes more dollars to buy the same products. Proceed accordingly.

 

In fairness to the older Tundra crumple zones, and airbags have been a thing since long before the Tundra was even a model.

A lot of the new driver “assistance” stuff is a set of features I would personally be happy to avoid. Personally I find them to be driver annoyance equipment, but more and more of these systems will be mandated as time goes on. So Toyota is future proofing their vehicles as much as possible so they can do their normal 37 year lifecycle before a refresh.

All of this extra stuff drives costs up regardless of inflation while providing what I consider questionable function or value for the cost.

 

But it does matter. For the last two decades we have seen an exponential growth in the amount of HENRYs (High Earners Not Rich Yet) who live and work in cities buying pickup trucks for the cool factor.

The banks know they can make big money financing those $80k 4x4 pickup trucks at 7% and Toyota has much higher margins on a 1794 4x4 than a Camry XLE so they market and manufacture it accordingly (leather, sound systems, comfy suspension, heated steering wheels, etc)

That has way more to do with why we are seeing $80,000 pickup trucks than any of the topics discussed in the 6 pages previously. We are not discussing 2 door vinyl covered bench seat pickups for $80k. These are no longer vehicles to do work but status symbols for HENRYs.

The banks make money. Toyota makes money. HENRY feels cool at red lights. It’s only going to get worse until the HENRY jobs are outsourced and the only ones left earning are those who get dirty and need utilitarian pickups for work again.

 

I don’t disagree with any of that; I’m just stating that’s why prices have risen. I’ve stated dozens of times on here I’d buy a brand new manual transmission, manual crank window 2 door 4x4 pickup if anyone still made one.

 

Sounds like I am keeping my '20 double cab SX package that was bought brand new in Fall 2021 for $38k lol. I'll take 2 of my trucks for that sticker price instead.

 

Man, as much as I’d like to agree with you on this I have to take some exception to your attitude towards people who are less fortunate, less capable, or less lucky. While it’s true that hard work, and perseverance often result in individual success and wealth building; there are still lots of people who work hard and don’t give up who still never achieve the economic results they strive for.

I’m not going to piss all over those people for being “poors” or having class envy or some other bullshit. I know plenty of people who work harder than I do who have a lot less to show for their efforts. Are there differences in skills, education, intelligence, decision making, and habits? Yep, we’re all humans doing human stuff and results will vary, but I try not to act like I’m better than they are (aside from poking fun at their vehicle choices).

Maybe you don’t mean to come off that way, but it kind of sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder. As if you truly believe it’s completely just that poor people deserve to be poor and should be treated as such and mocked for it. Hopefully that’s not the case, because that is the mark of a remarkably shitty human being.

I just want poor people to make better decisions and escape poverty. Many of them probably need some guidance to pull it off.

 

I want Toyota to sell a US sized Land Cruiser 79 Series truck with a big inline 6 turbodiesel that doesn’t need DEF or a DPF. With full time 4X4, locking diffs (all of them), cloth seats, real bumpers, crank windows, and a tray back for a bed. Give me a decent head unit with wireless CarPlay and a good stereo. Ditch all the radar cruise control etc.

This of course will never happen.

 

The TRD Pro 2024 supply is not really the problem. I am in the Silicon valley and there are 57 vehicles currently available for sale which are TRD Pro max, and zero without markups. (This is not including sale pending)

This is more supply than TRD Off road Limited which I may not go for since I don't want to reward dealers charging markups.

The lowest markup which has been offered to me is 2000$ which has been offered by dealers in Southern California (Near San Diego) or dealers from Vegas.
Bakersfield Toyota asked whether I would buy their 75000$ PRO if they offered same 2000$ markup and I let them know that I am looking for zero markup or dealer installed paint protection film and the likes.

Then Carson city toyota said zero markup but would have to get in line and waiting could be more than a year.

Toyota could kill this markup business easily. Right now bay area dealers are sitting on even 2023s with insane markups, effectively hoarding supply. Toyota could allocate "1" TRD Pro per dealer on their lot, and not send any TRD pro to a dealer till they sell it. I see some dealers with 2-3 TRD Pros with 1 on the lot and one incoming.

Last but not the least a couple of Oregon dealers have said if I am buying for a local zip code address they will do zero markup, otherwise 5000$ markup. I can respect that. They don't want the locals being priced out by far away buyers.

That said my conclusion is that west cast pricing is truly insane, but with the sheer amount of supply coming in, maybe early 2024 may have markups easing. But then I could be wrong. There were ford dealers hoarding over 50+ vehicles in their lots before the prices came back to MSRP.

Did any of you get a TRD Pro without markups. How long did you have to wait?

 

Ammo prices have come down and it’s more available then 6 mo ago

 

So build one.

I'm not being a smug douche about it. What are you willing or not willing to sacrifice in order to acquire the capital "trinity" of time, knowledge, and resources in order to meet your goal?
Not to speak for another member, but I think that is the basis of where @Matt2015Tundra is coming from with his statements - not simply just "shitting on the poors" or whatever he's being accused of.

Compensation is a reimbursement of sacrifice in its purest sense. In your case, it would be your new truck. For many company leaders, it is their paycheck/benefits/etc. Often it's warranted. When it isn't, I would argue that there is a regulatory obstacle in place that creates vast wealth that finds its way to the regulatory body keeping them in power, or finding a place for the regulator in that company once the regulatory obstacle is firmly entrenched. One needs to look no further than the pharmaceutical fiasco of the last 3 years (very easy, very obvious) going back another 25-30 years (less easy, less obvious) as an example. I'll limit myself here before things drift into the p-word territory.

 

Someone is. Just like there are people paying close to if not over 100k for a truck. Let that sink in.

 

I google a lot. So I googled statics for 2020 vs 2023. According to The Bureau of Labor Statics, it would take $46,400 today to buy my $39,000 2020 tundra. So, once again I will ask you, what did Toyota do to make an SR5 cost $52k? Proceed accordingly.

 

Re-design the truck completely? Implement new machinery, forms, and processes to build entirely new parts to assemble the new design?

A $6k increase in price during a period of unprecedented demand/supply inversion for a completely re-designed vehicle doesn't really seem that over the top.

 

Completely? I am sure that the richest manufacturer in the world is smarter than that. I would venture to say plenty came from other, Lexus brand, parts. Hell they use the old Saftey Sense on a complete re-design. So what else is old supply? Not to mention Toyota will makeup the tooling in the long run since there refreh is so long.

 

100% True, but I think @pursuit2550 is discussing from his point of view. As a consumer, what does the truck offer him that a 2020 for $6k less doesn't already have?

The answer is not really all that much. Of course, if you're in the market today for the first time for a truck you can't exactly go back in time and get a 2020 for $39k though.

 

By the way, I am being generous at the $52k. The dealers here as we all know won't move off msrp so it's $52k+++. Which makes it even more of a reason why an SR5 isn't worth it, to me obviously. Your opinion will vary by MPG.

 

Ok, semantics are fun. What number would make you happier for re-design? 80%? 90%? And yes they will make up the tooling in the long run. Guess how they do that? (it isn't by lowering prices per unit)
Do you believe that Toyota's costs also increased? Or was everything they're putting into the new vehicle completely unaffected by inflation/supply shortages/ pandemics/ financial tomfoolery?

Yeah, that I totally agree with. But perceived value is subjective, obviously. Numbers are quite objective. So, I was mating my reply to his objectivity.

 

It's isn't by price gouding. At least that's the way I see it. Look it it plane and simple to me. My 2020 was $39k OTD. My dealer keeps sending me email on a 2023 SR5 at $52,526+/- . Add $1000 dealer fee add $3676 for taxes add $250 for tag add $250 for dealer BS. That's $57,702. You want to pay almost $58k for a SR5 then be my guest, not my money. Me, I am smarter with my money and once again there is nothing in the 3rd gen that makes an SR5 worth $58k. There I have said my peace.

 

I think you should inhale and exhale slowly a couple of times, count to 10, and then point out where I said I'm in the market for any 3rd gen trim or where I would consider purchasing a 2023 SR5 for $58k. Or where I said I think it's a prudent financial decision. Or where I said it was fair. Or where any other of these fantasy straw men remarks are coming from.

Dealer shenanigans are a completely separate issue unrelated to the $6k price increase for a re-designed in-demand vehicle - which is what I was addressing. You asked where $6k came from. I answered with very basic manufacturing economics.

Finally, so as not to unnecessarily crowd the E.D. of whatever city you reside, WE'RE ON THE SAME SIDE HERE. I don't like all of the funny business going on either with vehicle pricing.

 

Average transaction price wise, a $58k in 2023 is about the same as $39k in 2030. $58k vs average transaction price of $48k. $39k vs average transaction price of $30k. Yes a steep inflation curve past few years but $39k will not get you any truck now other than a stripped down mid size

 

If I had to spend 80-90K on a vehicle it wont be a truck , Im struggling with auto prices my brain goes on a fritz when I see them…2019 I wouldn’t pay more than 50K for a car, this year was 60K…hope to drive them till Im dead or buy used.

 

Good to know we agree on the dealer BS.

 

This is the problem I have. I don't care about inflation. To me inflation is made up by the government and the elites for their own selfish reasons. To me it still doesn't change the fact that a 1/2 ton or any other vehicle should cost what it cost in today's market. The same goes for houses, RV, boats, you name it. There is a thread going on right now about the strike and UAW. The CEO's of of GM for instance gets paid 30million a year. That's all possible by selling over priced vehicle, obviously other things. But then she has the balls to say in not so many words that her employees are beneath her. And I understand the UAW workers because while the medium wage is 57k+/- the average home is now 500k, college is 100k, vehicles are 50k. So you see inflation is a shit show equation when you take into account that the medium income has only gone 37k in 43 years. Yet everything else has gone up 10 fold just because and I am supposed to play along.

 

Actually best vehicle to buy for $80-90k is a diesel heavy duty truck. I owned one for 8 years and 120k miles and sold it for 75 percent. I had Uncle that sold a one off Cummins 3500 mega cab
w/ 5 speed for what he paid after 10 years. This was pre COVID. Sure there are some 6-7 year old diesels that made money in 2021-2022. I would not spend that much on a 1500 because there will be less value retention.But buying $90k German vehicle is a quick way to loose $60k + in 5 years.

Do wonder if the truck pricing is entering the pricing level if you can afford an used one you are loaded enough to just buy a new one. That is what kills the kraut burners on value retention

 

You are being a smug douche, but I’ll entertain the question with a short answer.

I am not, and have no desire to be in the automotive manufacturing business. So I am unwilling to invest any time, or capital beyond that required to acquire a vehicle through retail sale into achieving the above goal. Furthermore the regulatory hurdles to achieve it are more or less insurmountable making any investment of time or capital a waste of both. Lastly there is basically no market demand for the product I am describing even if we could wave a magic wand: aka spend billions bribing politicians to undo many many emissions laws and vehicle safety laws and make the product legal. If consumers wanted a basic work truck there’s a good chance trucks would still look like what I just described.

You of course know this as well as anyone, hence your kind of smug douchey post.

 

Ahhh, entitlement, you magnificent bastard.

X is impossible, but I want it, therefore someone else should invest the capital to make it for me. At the price I want to pay. Harrummph.