Brake shudder

Figured I'd start my own thread here... Because why not?

Had the front brakes done by a shop about a month ago, and since then, I've been getting a LOT of brake squeal and a moderate to severe shudder when braking. I bought what I thought was good stuff: EBC slotted rotors and orange HD pads. The rear setup I did myself and no issues.

I looked at the front setup and everything seems good and tight. The only thing I found was maybe the sway bar end link, but I'm having trouble finding proper torque specs for it. Should this be *tight*? The passenger side seems fully tightened up. I gave the driver's side a few spins to tighten a bit (but not fully) and it might be my imagination, but I think it was better when I went out this morning (Bourbon County hunting!), so maybe it's as simple as tightening this up. Nothing else seems to be off, and I can't believe the brand new rotors would be warped already...

Picture of the bolt in question.

 

Would this describe what I'm looking for? I don't think it's anywhere near 51...but it also has a rubber part and seems like it should move/rotate? So I'm a little leery of just cranking it.

Stabilizer Link Torque Spec 51 ft-lbs

 

Or is this what I'm looking for? There's NO way these things are 111 lb-ft tight currently...

 

If stabilizer link would be lose you would hear clunk on every dip of the road, and i doubt that would result in any shudder when braking. I had stabilizer link nut lose on my truck, didn't encounter any problems with when brakes were applied. And by shudder do you mean steering wheel or the whole truck is shaking?

 

Seems like the installer did a poor job, maybe did not use included shims, grease the pins and moving components, not cleaning everything, or replacing any bad hardware etc. There is a bit more to a brake job than just throwing on new rotors and pads.

 

Did you "bed in" these new pads?

 

I will also add that you should bed in the brakes when you install new ones

https://brakeperformance.com/bedding-in-rotors.php

 

X2 for bedding rotors…once you think you’ve done it correctly do it again. Nice and hot and no leaving foot on pedal.

 

I have been feeling an intermittent clunk at the end of braking, but it's not constant. I think that the stabilizer end link being looser than it should be could be the cause of that - under certain situations it loads it up and then a bump or just the right amount of braking and "clunk". I tightened it up as much as I could by hand, as there's not enough clearance to fit my torque wrench in there with the truck being on the ground. I took it for a spin and (at least, of of yet) have been unable to recreate the clunk (I'd estimate it was maybe every 3-4 out of 10 stops), and the handling (again, perhaps just in my mind) feels a little tighter.

The link wasn't terribly loose, but I couldn't tighten the passenger side at all by hand, and got probably 4-6 turns on the driver's side, so crossing my fingers that solves at least one of the issues.

The whole truck shudders, including the steering wheel. If I don't hold the wheel I can see it shuddering back and forth, but it's only when braking, not during driving, or acceleration or anything else, so I'm fairly certain it's something to do with the brakes.

 

I took it here because it was the only place I could find that would do the work using the parts I brought in, and the guy who did the work told me he's owned a couple Tundras and based on our discussions he was pretty familiar with everything we talked to. But, that's not a guarantee of a great job either. I didn't notice it at first (that I can recall), otherwise I would have taken it in right away, so it feels like it's something that either came loose or possibly a new issue (it is an older truck and I suppose a shim or bushing or something could have gone bad in the meantime). I have an appointment Tuesday to bring it back in, but I'm trying to see if I can fix it on my own in the meantime. In addition to tightening down the sway bar end link, I went through with my torque wrench and checked all the caliper bolts (front and rear, even though the rear wasn't any sort of issue for a few months since I did it), and everything torqued out, although there's a few things it could maybe be (haven't taken it back out again for a recap to see if it's still there):

1. I'm finding different torque specs online - 73/70 (F/R) up to 133...I set it to 73 and checked them all
2. Although they all clicked as if they hit 73, the front driver's side did tighten a little with some more pressure; none of the other calipers did that
3. If the 133 ft-lbs. is right...good chance they're all just too loose
4. The hardware/springs were all replaced, but I do see several places that call for the caliper bolts themselves to not be reused (but I'm guessing 99% of people reuse them, including several threads I've found here in the forum...but that 133 ft-lbs. is pretty torquey, so I guess there's a possibility the bolts need to be replaced as several places say that's near their breaking point
5. The fact that the bolts tightened a bit on the driver's side makes me wonder if they used any sort of locking compound on there, as that seems to be something OEM bolts include

 

For the folks that asked: I did bed in the brake pads. Same as what I did on the rears and per the EBC guidelines.

 

If the wheel is shaking only during braking, problem most likely is a warped brake rotor, it's either bad from factory, or maybe wasn't seated properly during installation and got warped.

 

So I took both sides apart yesterday (you know, for fun) and inspected everything...all looked good. Internet research tells me "warped rotors" may be a potential false assumption and it's in reality uneven deposition of the pad material on the rotor? I couldn't visually see any issues with the pad rubbing or the space between the rotor and pad with the wheels removed and rotating the hub either, but it's likely not something I could inspect visually. I played around with some additional bedding-in on my way to/from hockey last night...I can't tell that it made a difference, so I guess I'm just going to keep my appt at the shop tomorrow morning and bring it in for an inspection...meh. Not the results I was hoping for/expecting after dropping $2,300 on what should be a quality braking system...

 

Took a couple snaps of the driver's side as well.

 

Looks like they did not clean and grease the pins, that crud looks like it has been on them forever. So I will stand my by earlier post here, I think it is related to the install. Does not look like they cleaned and greased the pins, wonder if they used any included shims, used antisqueal, greased the parts the need it. Taking a shortcut and not doing the job properly can induce noise, vibration, shimmy, etc.

 

I'm not sure on the pins, but the hardware otherwise is brand new. Just got done at the shop and he diagnosed it as a warped rotor. Definitely has some drag in one spot, so unlikely it's the pads/caliper. I'm going to pull it apart again and remove the rotor, clean up the seating area to see if that helps before reaching out to see about a warranty replacement if it is truly warped.

 

I would just request a new rotor or have the questionable rotor turned ( when turning the rotor the shop doing it could see if it's true or warped). Just what I have been told by my buddy who is a Master Tech for 30 yrs @ a Toyota dealer-he recommends always use OEM, just my .02 cents.

 

Next step is to clean up the seating area for the rotor myself and see if that fixes anything. It's only got maybe 300 miles on it since the brake job. Hoping that it's something in the rotor/hub seating. If not, then I'll be looking into a rotor resurfacing, or as a last resort, to EBC and/or where I got the brake kit from to see about a replacement.

 

Took it all apart (again) and sprayed the whole thing down, cleaned it up with a wire brush and chipped off some of the rust with a flathead screwdriver...all the basically no avail. The brake is sticking at a certain spot, which seems like it's causing the issue. It's not much, but it's apparently enough.

So I've got to take some pictures and send them off to CarID to see about a potential replacement. It was dark and raining, so I did it kind of quickly, but when I've got some additional time I'll have to take a closer look to make sure all the parts are there.

Is there anything else I can really do at this point? I honestly can't tell what the issue is, aside from either a warped rotor or some bad runout, but that seems like it's a long shot in such a short period.

 

I put Power Stop rotors and Z36 pads on front of Tundra and followed their break in procedure to a T and warped like hell. Summit wouldn't replace them and Power Stop told me I HAD to go through vendor I purchased from! Replaced with Duralast Gold rotors and pads from AutoZone and no issues at all.

 

I figure worst-case scenario, I can buy a rotor from CarID and replace it. I chatted with them earlier and they said they'd do what they could to help out.

For the group at large - what are my next steps here? Should I pull the rotor and take it somewhere (O'Reilly's says they do resurfacing?) to see if it's a simple resurface, or if I can get the run-out tested? The shop I had do the work told me they don't even resurface rotors any more, and I should get a new one...

 

Hopefully getting closure on this today - at the local dealership and they tested the runout and said all 4 rotors are showing signs of warpage. FML. They've days they've seen a lot of problems with the slotted rotors and don't recommend them at all. They told me they don't even recommend machining then as it would put it near the limits for thickness. I didn't even compare the to the originals so I can't say if there's a difference.

They're putting on OEM replacements, and with labor it'll be $600. They think the pads will be fine as they're almost brand new.

Guess now I get to fight with CarID and/or EBC to get these replaced or credited somehow.

Bummer... But I'm excited to hopefully move past this!

 

In the future, I'd strongly recommend avoiding CarID. My fiance and I have both bought from them a few times and regretted every purchase. BuyBrakes.com has better prices and -infinitely- better service. EBC would be your best bet for getting them replaced but unlikely they'll refund you outright like CarID *should*. If(when?) CarID blows you off, though, I'd suggest talking to your credit card company about opening a case for partial or full refund - you didn't get what you paid for, after all.

 

I'll see how it goes - I sent then a picture of the invoice from the dealership that tested the runout on the rotors at .006, which is out of spec. We'll see what they say. The ride home was much less jittery than on the way there. I guess it's a small price to pay for a learning situation.

I even asked them about bed-in and they said the techs take the vehicles for a drive and do a bed-in process prior to delivery back to the customer, so that's nice. The squeal that had been there almost since day one on the fronts I had installed also appears to be gone. I guess Toyota knows what they're doing with the brakes on the trucks!