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Anyone running the stage1 blower kit from harrop?

Discussion in 'Performance and Tuning' started by Davetheplumber321, Mar 18, 2021.

  1. Jan 1, 2022 at 5:35 AM
    #1231
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    When I had untuned stage 1 put on in June, my installer Alex peitz said it was going to 11.9 on his narrow band WOT

    he said the stock tune was very safe, as it cuts power every chance it gets. Pulls timing. IT stays on the stock map.

    this jibes with what I saw on my scanguage

    I think harrop is not incorrect. As they say it is not ideal

    it’s safe enough though

    a good tune cleans up A lot of items

    however…..13.1 afr WOT is not good.

    @snivilous said it best- it should ride around 14.6. Then drop around half pedal. My truck does this. I don’t see 13s very often. It’s either 14.5 or low 12s

    either way. Thanks for the info and keep us in the loop
     
  2. Jan 1, 2022 at 12:10 PM
    #1232
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    I'm not bitchin'...I have a question for the mathematically mature folks.

    Why, after doing stage 2, is my dash MPG says I avg 27mpg?

    I'm genuinely getting 17.

    is the computer thinking I'm using less fuel?

    Or is the computer not taking into account the 650cc injectors?


    [​IMG]
     
  3. Jan 1, 2022 at 7:14 PM
    #1233
    snivilous

    snivilous New Member

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    Random guess, bigger injector means it's not open as long as the stock injector to flow the same fuel. The tune obviously knows this and compensates. The rest of the truck as far as it's concerned is only pumping half as much fuel, but because of the injector is pumping a "normal" amount.
     
  4. Jan 1, 2022 at 8:40 PM
    #1234
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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    Makes sense to me. The ECU could be making it's calculation based on how long the injector is open. During normal cruising with the fatter injectors, that's going to be a shorter period of time.
     
    ViktorG and nobodyintexas like this.
  5. Jan 4, 2022 at 10:15 AM
    #1235
    dpast88

    dpast88 New Member

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    285/70r17 Bridgestone AT Revo 3 , 17x8.5 Icon Rebound Wheels, JBA Headers, TRD Dual Exhaust, Ironman Foam Cell Coilovers, BD BDX
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  6. Jan 4, 2022 at 10:23 AM
    #1236
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    it's tough to beat a 700hp 4wd vehicle. especially if your 4wd vehicle does not have 700hp.

    @ViktorG would beat it. by a lot.
     
  7. Jan 4, 2022 at 10:32 AM
    #1237
    1UP

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    dpast88 likes this.
  8. Jan 4, 2022 at 10:37 AM
    #1238
    HonorNotInner

    HonorNotInner New Member

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    Added money to it.
    Those TRX’s have launch control, and two more gears.
     
  9. Jan 4, 2022 at 12:05 PM
    #1239
    Tundra John

    Tundra John New Member

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    4” Readylift, Fuel 20” tires w/ Kenda 35”x12.5 tires, tint, dechromed, Custom Platinum Badging, Running Boards, Auto tailgate lock, LED swap, Changed out stereo system, VLeds Interior floor lights, DirtyDeeds 8” exhaust, TRD air filter, wrapped interior silver components,
    Just curious about the 17MPG… Are you running stock sized wheels and tires or a lift?
     
  10. Jan 4, 2022 at 1:33 PM
    #1240
    Silver17

    Silver17 New Member

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    Toytec ultimate coilovers, toytec progressive mini AAL, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger stage 2, TRD Dual exhaust, method 17” 314s, 295/70r17 Grabber X3s.
    Should be interesting to see what they can do with this. I’m curious if crazy power can be had from a tune like the ecoboost engines. I’ve read that it probably doesn’t have the same potential since the ecoboost is a high revving short stroke wide bore engine vs the Toyota engine which is a narrow bore, long stroke engine. Didn’t look into that myself though.

    A0B9CCEC-0AC2-4668-A222-269E3577A3FE.jpg
     
  11. Jan 5, 2022 at 3:17 AM
    #1241
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    stock everything. and I'm 90% hwy driving to work & back.

    now that winter blend is out....I'm down to 16.5
     
  12. Jan 5, 2022 at 3:25 AM
    #1242
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    I'll reckon the TQ grows a lot more than HP. because of stroke length.

    imagine how complex that tune is....2 turbos, epa crap, 10 speed trans, etc.

    I could appreciate 525hp/620tq from the non-hybrid motor.

    I have to go by my Mom's house next week (which is very close to D3) & sniff this out.
     
  13. Jan 5, 2022 at 1:50 PM
    #1243
    Tundra John

    Tundra John New Member

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    Thanks!
     
  14. Jan 5, 2022 at 2:27 PM
    #1244
    1UP

    1UP Truck Gang

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    We all know it can be bumped. LC using the same motor gets 409hp out of it.
     
  15. Jan 6, 2022 at 3:25 AM
    #1245
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    agreed. but bumped by how much? If it can be tuned by outsiders...can we see 600FtLbs?
     
  16. Jan 7, 2022 at 5:46 AM
    #1246
    Silver17

    Silver17 New Member

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    Toytec ultimate coilovers, toytec progressive mini AAL, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger stage 2, TRD Dual exhaust, method 17” 314s, 295/70r17 Grabber X3s.
    Saltyhero13 and 1UP like this.
  17. Jan 9, 2022 at 1:59 PM
    #1247
    Silver17

    Silver17 New Member

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    Toytec ultimate coilovers, toytec progressive mini AAL, Airlift bags, Harrop Supercharger stage 2, TRD Dual exhaust, method 17” 314s, 295/70r17 Grabber X3s.
    Finally got my stage 2 parts in and sent out my first batch of data logs. Can’t wait to get some tune revisions back. Here’s to hoping that I logged them correctly, still a newb at this.

    Also, as someone else mentioned they had an issue with them…. my mechanic said the bolts for the pulley were stupidly tight and had loctite on them. He said no way they were tightened to the torque specs of 6-7 ft lbs. he actually had to heat up the bolts using a soldering iron to try and break down the loctite and break them free. If I do another pulley swap in the future he says to get new bolts, just a tip to anyone who swaps pulleys in the future
     
  18. Jan 11, 2022 at 8:38 AM
    #1248
    Downytide

    Downytide New Member

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    That's awesome on that, Dinesh @ D3 came thru for the software to allow the Maggie to be put on the 2021, we are taking our time to get it done and just took it for a test drive, wow it was simply amazing.

    [​IMG]

    what @snivilous recorded may hold true on 4.4s, I was able to test it for 0-100km/h in 4hi, no brake boost launch, just stationary and punch the throttle and recorded at 6.09s while going sideway a lot (it's 0c where I am), this was done on a closed circuit.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2022
  19. Jan 13, 2022 at 9:09 AM
    #1249
    ZPhilip

    ZPhilip Custom title here

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    Dp you have the Scangauge codes for the AFR?
     
  20. Jan 13, 2022 at 9:35 AM
    #1250
    nobodyintexas

    nobodyintexas What?

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    Whatever this forum told me to do
    upload_2022-1-13_11-35-17.jpg
     
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  21. Jan 13, 2022 at 9:55 AM
    #1251
    ZPhilip

    ZPhilip Custom title here

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    Thanks! I’ll give it a try!
     
  22. Jan 13, 2022 at 3:26 PM
    #1252
    ViktorG

    ViktorG Lexus/Toyota Master Tech

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    World's fastest supercharged Tundra - 2010 RCSB - 10.8 @122 - All wheel drive conversion, lowered, supercharged 2008 DCLB - All wheel drive conversion, 13" lift on 37's
    I do not post much on forums and Facebook anymore for many reasons - lack of time, people expressing too many opinions without backing them up with facts or experience (this is a general statement, not directed at anyone here or this thread in particular), no desire to argue with people to prove a point etc.
    However, I wanted to give my personal view on this topic.

    The stock A/F sensors cannot read richer than ~11.9:1 which makes them useless for tuning a supercharged Tundra.
    In my tunes I shoot for 10.5-11.0 AFR, since I have seen way too many broken ring lands, cracked pistons etc. on these trucks with superchargers and they need the cooling from the extra fuel.
    If the stock A/F sensors read 11.9:1, that could mean it is actually at 11.9:1 (way too lean in my opinion for this platform) or as low as 9.xx:1 (as seen on the stock TRD and other tunes - way too rich and results in loss of power and misfiring).

    As far as a tune being safe because the ECU cuts power and pulls timing, that does not really make sense to me.
    The ECU will generally only retard timing because it is detecting engine knock, so I cannot see why the fact that it is constantly pulling timing is making it a "safe" tune.
    The stock NA timing map will command up to 26 degrees of timing at WOT by redline.
    The supercharged engines on 91 octane start knocking above approximately 17 degrees of timing at WOT (depending on many factors of course).
    So for the ECU to run a supercharged engine on the NA tune, it constantly has to retard timing in response to knock.
    Thankfully, it has a long term strategy of reducing knock correct learn value if it sees sustained knock for long periods of time.
    The problem with this is that it affects a broad RPM range, so if the engine only knocks at 4500 RPM for example, KCLV will reduce timing from ~4000 RPM all the way up to redline (not ideal).
    A proper tune should not constantly rely on knock retard for everyday operation, it should run off the timing map and make minimal knock retard corrections.
    Even the Magnuson supplied tunes for their superchargers are constantly knocking and pulling back timing (I don't have my laptop with me but will post some knock feedback graphs of a Maggi tune vs my tune when I get around to it).

    Lastly, while I have a great working relationship with Harrop and use their product on my personal vehicle, I would not want to run a Stage 1 setup without a tune, especially when towing or prolonged WOT operation.
    The NA tune enters power enrichment way too late, advances timing way too much and uses VVTi timing maps that do not suit a supercharged application, among other things.
    Cheers!

    Viktor
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2022
  23. Jan 13, 2022 at 4:22 PM
    #1253
    Warreng

    Warreng New Member

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    mic drop.
     
  24. Jan 13, 2022 at 7:46 PM
    #1254
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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  25. Jan 13, 2022 at 11:47 PM
    #1255
    diablodalton

    diablodalton New Member

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  26. Jan 14, 2022 at 11:46 AM
    #1256
    Bluecobra

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    In talking with the folks at Harrop about my issues of being too lean almost across the entire rpm range I was told that the Stock injectors are marginal in a Stage 1 install. The flex fuel pump is big enough but the injectors are very close to the edge. In addition to the Harrop my truck has JBA longtubes and Deeds 3" exhaust. In trying to tune my truck we could maintain 10.8 AFR up to about 4 psi, then it started to get lean and we would end up around 12.6 - no good.

    Harrop says I need bigger injectors so I have a set of 650cc on the way. Hopefully this will give us the fuel we need up top.
     
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  27. Jan 14, 2022 at 1:26 PM
    #1257
    ZPhilip

    ZPhilip Custom title here

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    Are the headers and exhaust causing the lean issues? Or just the stock injectors are inadequate for stage 1 boost levels?
    Very curious because my Harrop is getting installed on Tuesday.
     
  28. Jan 14, 2022 at 1:47 PM
    #1258
    HonorNotInner

    HonorNotInner New Member

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    Added money to it.
    What A/F sensors do you use/recommend?
     
  29. Jan 14, 2022 at 1:53 PM
    #1259
    Wynnded

    Wynnded What MPG...

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  30. Jan 14, 2022 at 2:40 PM
    #1260
    BigAl

    BigAl New Member

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    Or even better - monitor on both banks. AFR on left, fuel pressure on right.

    3891_DLG-1.jpg
    IMG_4912.jpg
     
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