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3.5L turbo is plenty reliable winning 2022 Dakar Rally

Discussion in '3rd Gen Tundras (2022+)' started by Tundra-G, Jan 23, 2023 at 1:30 PM.

  1. Jan 23, 2023 at 1:30 PM
    #1
    Tundra-G

    Tundra-G [OP] New Member

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    Not sure if this was already mentioned, but it was news for me.

    It seems Toyota put the new 3.5L turbo found in the Tundra and new LC300 into the 2022 Dakar Rally, which won the race. They are running the same engine yet again in 2023. HP is limited by the FIA, but numbers are pretty similar to stock, about 400HP.

    I say this engine looks like will be very reliable.

    https://toyotagazooracing.com/dakar/release/2021/1117-01/

    https://newsroom.toyota.eu/power-performance-as-toyota-dominate-at-2023-dakar-rally/

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=H6Tx_D6J6ms&feature=shares
     
  2. Jan 23, 2023 at 1:40 PM
    #2
    DFS

    DFS New Member

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    I'm sure it's identical to the Tundra engine right? I too pick Dakar motors for my daily driver because the use case is so similar.
     
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  3. Jan 23, 2023 at 2:46 PM
    #3
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    Seriously. I bet short tripping to Starbucks and the grocery store is worse for the motor than the Dakar.
     
  4. Jan 23, 2023 at 3:19 PM
    #4
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    LOL, totally a stock V35A-FTS for sure.
     
  5. Jan 23, 2023 at 3:40 PM
    #5
    Tundra-G

    Tundra-G [OP] New Member

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    It is supposedly largely the same with the same turbos etc. From the information, Toyota marketing pushed them to use this engine to prove durability. This replaced the prior 5.0L v8 in the Hilux. which is in Lexus LC500 / RC-F / GS-F.

    I agree, there likely will be internals components that are different, but it is based on the same engine.

    My 4.0 GT3 engine is very similar, not necessarily identical to the GT3 cup car.
     
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  6. Jan 23, 2023 at 3:57 PM
    #6
    KNABORES

    KNABORES Elitist forum troll

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    Article says that the motor is a production Land Cruiser motor. But as has been discussed on other threads here, the Landcruiser version of the V35A differs from the Tundra version. Turbos are not the exact same ones that ended up on the Tundra. They are similar, the Tundra the "economy" version, from a parts standpoint. The land cruisers did not suffer from the wastegate issues that affected a number of the Tundra production units. But a single race doesn't really translate to daily use. But hey, they won!! Nothing bad happened, so it's a really good showing for Toyota and the motor.
     
  7. Jan 23, 2023 at 5:47 PM
    #7
    Tundra-G

    Tundra-G [OP] New Member

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    I am not sure where you came up with the data that Tundra has the “economy” version of the Land Cruiser engine.

    They are the same engine, one produced in Japan, the other in the US. Sure, there could be parts differences, but as a matter of fact lots of engine parts surrounding my 22’ Tubdra are labeled as Denso made in Japan.

    In terms of the wastegate issue, very small percent of the cars here in the US had the issue. And how do you know Land Cruiser did not have the same issue? If 2-3 people did not post on Facebook here in the US, blowing it out of proportion, no one would have known of any issues.

    PS: the fact is that the design, architecture and output of this engine was worthy enough to replace the venerable 5.0L Toyota V8 in endurance race application.

    Not only that, 2022 Dakar Hilux with this new engine was the first time Toyota won in a long time. Now they are dominating in 2023 as well.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023 at 6:26 PM
  8. Jan 23, 2023 at 5:50 PM
    #8
    topdec

    topdec New Member

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    This is cool, OP. It's good to know that the Tunda's engine platform could be reliable based on racing performance. Racing is what keeps technology moving forward, and this technology makes its way into our garages at some point. I believe this from watching MotoGP and WorldSBK, and personally experiencing how technology in my motorcycles have come along way since 1999.

    Thanks for sharing!
     
  9. Jan 23, 2023 at 6:06 PM
    #9
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    Turbos are exactly the same. Same part numbers. Only distance is Land Cruiser turbos made in Japan, Tundras are made in USA.
     
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  10. Jan 23, 2023 at 6:18 PM
    #10
    KNABORES

    KNABORES Elitist forum troll

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    Are they made from the same parts manufacturer?
     
  11. Jan 23, 2023 at 6:21 PM
    #11
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    Yeah, made by IHI. It says right on the turbo.
     
  12. Jan 23, 2023 at 6:28 PM
    #12
    KNABORES

    KNABORES Elitist forum troll

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    I maybe confusing the Land Cruiser spec 3.4 with the Lexus 3.4. There’s another version of the 3.4 TT that is not identical to the one in the Tundra. Has a different spec turbo setup etc.
     
  13. Jan 23, 2023 at 6:31 PM
    #13
    wxman91

    wxman91 New Member

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    That's crazy you posted this today. I was just watching videos of that Dakar Hilux last night and thought to myself this engine has a lot of potential if they were willing to run it in an endurance race and also win with it.
     
  14. Jan 23, 2023 at 6:55 PM
    #14
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    The LS500 has different turbos, VVTI actuators, piston oil squirters, intercooler, intake manifold, and a few other different parts. It’s a more complex engine.
     
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  15. Jan 23, 2023 at 7:09 PM
    #15
    CaptRussia253

    CaptRussia253 New Member

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    I’m a V8 fan but can appreciate what Toyota has done with this twin turbo V6. Looks like any generation tundra is a good buy haha.
     
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  16. Jan 23, 2023 at 7:13 PM
    #16
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    Toyota can claim that was a production engine all they want to, but this is motor sports we’re talking about. If there is any competitive activity on Earth with more cheats than auto racing you’d have to show me.

    Since Dakar doesn’t have a sealed spec engine that can be torn down and measured to a standard, there’s almost no way to verify Toyota’s claim. So this “standard production” V35A-FTS might have some stock Toyota foundry casting numbers, and externally resemble a production engine; but there could and probably will be all sorts of race car fuckery going on in there. Specialty forged pistons, and forged connecting rods made of exotic alloys, and a forged crank made of some stupidly expensive to machine alloy. Hell go ahead and engrave Toyota part #’s on them if there is tech inspection. Prove they’re not regular parts without destructive testing and chemical analysis.

    Then keep in mind the race truck engine will have been very very carefully machined, blueprinted, balanced, and assembled. Far beyond what you will find in a factory mass production engine. That alone even with stock parts (which probably are not being used), will free up net power output by reducing friction losses and reducing first and second order vibrations. This also helps the engine live longer because a very well balanced rotating assembly is far less likely to hammer the dog shit out of the main bearings.
     
  17. Jan 23, 2023 at 7:21 PM
    #17
    Black@Blue19

    Black@Blue19 New Member

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    Came with all the lane departure and that stuff, electric tail gate lock, fog lights, 20s, sprayed on bed liner, tint, cat protector, and that’s about it??:)
    400 HP pushing some tubing!!, shocks, and some wheels and tires. It sure sounded a lot different than any Tundra I have heard?? You could hear the turbos for sure!!:)
     
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  18. Jan 23, 2023 at 7:24 PM
    #18
    Half Assed

    Half Assed me ne frego

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    So it'll last at least 5000 miles?
     
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  19. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:26 AM
    #19
    mass-hole

    mass-hole New Member

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    :rofl:

    It's like when someone posts about an issue they're having and someone else comes in and offers no advice or info and just says "10,000 miles and zero issue." like they deserve a medal.

    Obviously this is a much different 5000 miles but that was the first thing that popped into my head when I read your post lol.
     
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  20. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:52 AM
    #20
    hagrid

    hagrid It's called "satire"... look it up.

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    Good Lord, I hope not. Need to save money for fuel.
    Pics of '22 Tubdra, plz.
     
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  21. Jan 24, 2023 at 6:19 AM
    #21
    mmasse

    mmasse Digital Forensics Cowboy

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    [​IMG]
     
  22. Jan 24, 2023 at 7:50 AM
    #22
    catalac

    catalac New Member

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    “Production v35a engine”
    “540L fuel capacity” :)
    “400hp, 500tq”
     
  23. Jan 24, 2023 at 8:17 AM
    #23
    C.I.

    C.I. Surf, off road, sleep, repeat

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    It's unlikely that engine has stock rods, cams, pumps, injectors, etc., "race" components are necessary to get the best power/tq curve out of it. Race engines on average only need to last for as much as a daily driver's oil change interval, after that they get rebuilt, thus reliability is not an issue so long as it finishes a handfull of races.

    I have no doub't it's a great engine, but calling it production is a bit too much.
     
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  24. Jan 24, 2023 at 9:33 AM
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    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    No mention of internals but the FIA limits are close to what the stock engine is capable of outputting.

    “298 kW of power and approximately 660 Nm”

    Stock engine: 310 kw / 650 Nm

    There’s really no need to change internals for these power levels.
     
  25. Jan 24, 2023 at 9:46 AM
    #25
    Terndrerrr

    Terndrerrr it's good to get lost once in a while

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    From IHI (http://ihi.co.jp/): “IHI Turbo Service supplies brand-new turbochargers produced by IHI for aftermarket and remanufactured turbochargers based on our strict quality standard. Also we develop and provide high performance turbochargers for motorsports and tuning.

    From IHI America (https://www.ihi-turbo.com/):
    “RH-series turbochargers are developed, marketed and manufactured by IHI America under license from IHI. IHI and IHI America have a long, successful history in the manufacture of quality, reliable high-speed rotary machines.”

    Seems like the ones for the Tundra are made here in a different factory.
     
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  26. Jan 24, 2023 at 10:09 AM
    #26
    C.I.

    C.I. Surf, off road, sleep, repeat

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    A 100% stock engine on a race car is not ideal, even if the output doesn't change, these engines get rev'd pretty high, thus internals need to be changed to reduce mass and for optimal low/high end figures (ie: HP/TQ on the RPM range).

    Of course this is all speculation, reality could be very different. Though that truck isn't a stock truck in a local race, this is a $x00,000 dollar truck, with a contingency team worth just as much, not to mention the eyes of sponsors and careers depending on a good result in the world's most unforgiving race. Betting it all on a stock engine would be insane, I'm not saying it's impossible, just not a good bet.
     
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  27. Jan 24, 2023 at 12:09 PM
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    G1GRANDEUR

    G1GRANDEUR New Member

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    production engine and race prep engine is not same.
     
  28. Jan 24, 2023 at 12:10 PM
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    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    Sure there is a need to change internals. The stock components are capable of meeting a very light duty cycle infrequently producing peak power at high RPM’s, a racing engine in an endurance event like the Dakar calls for an engine capable of withstanding that kind of abuse all day long for 95% or more of the running time on the engine.

    Very different duty cycle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2023 at 1:26 PM
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  29. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:22 PM
    #29
    xc_tc

    xc_tc New Member

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    I mean, it has to tow quite frequently. Worst case would probably be at the peak torque area anyway. I could see Toyota going either way with the internals of the engine. Ford did something similar with the Ecoboost a few years ago when they ran the Baja 1000 with a completely stock 3.5L V6.
     
  30. Jan 24, 2023 at 5:51 PM
    #30
    Coal Dragger

    Coal Dragger New Member

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    I wanted a faster vehicle so I also bought a Chevy SS... because 4 door sedans with big V8’s are hilarious.
    You’re not even close to understanding the difference in a race engine and production grade light duty passenger car or passenger “truck” engine.

    Towing does not equal the strain of constant maximum power operation, and full throttle acceleration all the time. Peak torque operating range isn’t the operating condition that generates the most heat and the most friction.

    By your extremely flawed logic a GT3 class endurance race car might as well use whatever stock production engine because the stock street car often makes more peak power. Yet there are zero stock engines being used in those applications on the grid at the 24 Hours Du Le Mans.

    This is called a clue.
     
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