2nd vs 3rd Gen towing

Have any of you former 2 and 2.5 Gen owners that are now in a 3rd gen done much towing with your new truck?
Wanting to hear some first hand comparisons on pulling/passing power, stability, and mpg between the generations.

 

I haven’t but everyone who has that I have seen say it’s improved in every category you listed.

 

IMO for anyone towing or using the 22+ at elevations above say 5000Ft, the turbos help incredibly. The engine will perform at Full potential as opposed to a regular aspirated engine that looses 3% output for every 1000Ft of elevation.

At 6000FT my 5.7 really sucks it, you can press the pedal all the way down and it feels like a 1980s GM V6, lots of noise but no go, almost embarrassing when you're there with a full load of folks and you're getting passed going uphill by others with turbos and superchargers.

Now imagine towing a 5000lb trailer with the same load at 6K or higher with a naturally aspirated engine...not pretty.

 

Main reason I switched from my 4runner to the new tundra. My 4runner is regeared on 35's and still massively struggles in the colorado mountains. My 22 on 35's absolutely ate up the hills yesterday. People at high elevations don't realize how much efficient horsepower in a turbo engine will massively outperform an N/A engine with similar numbers.

 

I never took this into consideration, but it totally makes sense. Although, I’ll say I didn’t really have any issues towing my wife’s Lexus through Washington, Idaho, Utah and northern Nevada. I’m not sure how that elevation compares to Co.

 

Here's a visual: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...12-US-Elevations-P_2048x2048.jpg?v=1461369051

Even though many areas have similar elevations, CO west of the Rockies has many steep climbs and drops to get to the ski areas and even many of the non ski areas. All beautiful yet extra rough on drivetrains.

 

So if you lived in the maroonish region compared to that all that red you would lose at least 10% of your power!? well when you put it that way…

 

I've towed my Airstream all over Colorado and through some terrible mountain passes. The 5.7 is very capable.

 

Man I really don’t know what you guys are talking about being sluggish at altitude. I took my 5.7 up to 13k’ for a week in SW Colorado last year. We were even slightly over GVWR. I did not notice it being less peppy or anything. I monitored and chased lockup—if it was too steep to stay locked up in 6th, I’d drop to 5th or 4th if needed. It was more about trans temps and brakes than engine performance, but I had no problem passing anyone when needed and did not feel sluggish like I expected to given what I read about my naturally aspirated v8 at altitude on here.

That said, the TTv6 with all that torque down low has got to be awesome when towing.

 

We all saw it on TFL. 2400 rpm climbing a 6% grade with an 8000 lbs trailer at 9000 ft. Phenomenal.

 

As somebody that lives above 6000 feet I'm going to have to flag this as grossly exaggerated hyperbole. Yes, it has an impact, but it's not struggling and wheezing like a fat asthmatic smoker on a treadmill.

All things being equal, forced air will maintain power at elevation better, but you're grossly exaggerating the impact it has on a NA engine. The bigger issue is that you're trying to use a half ton to tow an 8k lb trailer up a grade and complaining that you get passed by forced air rigs. Who TF really thinks a NA gasser half ton is going to haul a trailer that weighs more than it does uphill, at elevation, and not have to adjust their expectations? Buy a diesel tow pig if you want to run 80 up a mountain, but for shit's sake, at least make sure your trailer tires are rated for the speed. I'd hate to have to read another whine about inferior tires because somebody stupid used it a manner it's not intended for.

 

Highest elevation I get to is about 1500' so the benefit of forced induction over n/a isn't a factor for me.

I do tow a 21' bass boat for 6-8k miles a year that fully loaded with gear and all comes in around 5k lbs. My 2.5 gen doesn't have an issue with stability or power most of the time.
However there are a few lakes I fish that I have to climb a 5 mile long 6% grade both ways. It does decent power wise, but with a line of trucks going 45 in the right lane and cars going 80 in the fast lane having more power to maneuver around trucks and back into the right lane to keep from getting ran over would be great.
My TT is 7500lbs and as aerodynamic as a barn. That's where increased stability and power really would come into play. I pull it about 2k miles per year. My current tundra on E tires does well, but I pull it across that same grade several times per year. High winds and big rig turbulence push me quite a bit. It never feels unsafe but a little more stability would be great. And obviously more power with that size load is a no brainer.
Then we have mpg. I get 8.5-9 pulling the boat and 5-6 pulling the TT. I don't expect some crazy mpg numbers but if the 22 were to get 2 more mpg while towing it'd be $1k less in fuel at $4 gal just during towing.

 

I'll take the 4runner off your hands so you don't have to to suffer with it

 

25 years ago when everything was carbureted rather than fuel injected, this really was an issue. These days, not so much. Funny how those old memories never fade.

 

that was more than 25 years ago, lol

 

Towing a 4900lb travel trailer with our 2022 SR5 2WD at 1500 miles, used to tow same trailer with 2016 5.7L SR5 4WD. Fuel economy is a little better with the 2022 SR5 coming in initially at 14MPG compared to 12MPG with the 2016 SR5 locally in North Carolina. The 2022 3.5L feels just as powerful towing as the 2016 5.7L. Used to get 12MPG in 5th gear towing same trailer around 60 to 63MPG with the 5.7L, don't remember RPM. Getting 14MPG with the 2022 in 8th at 65MPH around 1875RPM, seems odd but watching MPG indicator in the center panel, fuel burn is a little worse at 1750RPM at 60MPH on the interstate. Going to experiment in 7th gear to find the best MPG towing same trailer around 50 to 55MPH next.

The 2022 is very stable like the older 2016, but the 2022 has a little less rear end sag than the 2016, no WDH.

 

What speed are you towing at?

Also, yes, the 2022 has more power, but not much. It has 9 more HP and 70 more torque at its peak numbers, IIRC. If you really want better power like you are saying, then you need to wait for the hybrid version. That is where you'll see gains you can feel.

The downside will be that the hybrid only comes in higher trims that will have lower payloads, and the added cost is going to take you a decade or more to recover in fuel savings. It is cheaper to drive what you have than to buy a new vehicle for such a minimal gain in fuel efficiency.

 

Hybrid has a higher payload trim for trim than non, different rear end to handle the weight and torque.

 

No, it doesn't. Directly from Toyota, it's less. You also can't get the hybrid in a double cab.

 

I think he's confused with GVWR, that is higher in the hybrid, but all that does is off-set some of the payload loss from the heavy batteries, but as you said, the NET is less payload.

hey toyota, give us the higher GVWR in the non-hybrid so we can have even more payload.

 

I think you are correct, but figured I'd post the official stuff so somebody reading doesn't get confused as well.

 

The boat I try to keep around 70 but I'm not gonna lie I get heavy footed sometimes with it and get up to 80.
The camper I keep around 60-65.
I know hp is similar and the torque isn't a crazy amount higher on the standard motor but it seems to be pull quite differently due to the power band from what I've seen.
I'm going to end up in a 3rd gen sooner or later anyway. I'm not trying to justify upgrading over fuel savings as I know I'll never recoup the cost. I mentioned fuel savings as I have a set budget for fun. Few mpg at these crazy prices can mean a few more trips on the budget

 

thats an important point that seems to be glossed over here and people are only looking at the total HP and Torque numbers, you cant do that.

you have to look at the entire picture. Yes it has more HP and Torque, but a bigger difference is the 10 speed, it can keep it right in the sweet spot of the power band in just about any condition, many more options when you have 10 gears. Also pair that with the lower peak and thats a huge reason why that tundra in the TFL video didn't even break a sweat going up those grades with that much weight.

 

Well crap, I could have sworn is read/ saw that it had higher payload.. guess I heard wrong or read another lie on the internet!

 

Exactly....Peak torque on the 5.7 is @ 3600 RPM compared to the 3.5 which is 2400 RPM. That alone makes it, on paper anyway since I haven't driven one, a much more relaxed towing experience I would say compared to the 5.7.

 

thats also(2,400ish) right about where the 10 speed kept it on the TFL hill climb as well, its not a coincidence

*Im not knocking the 350 either, just a different set up*

 

Well it sounds like you have a solid grasp on things, and you'll definitely have a better towing experience with the added power management of the new transmission. If you can stick to 60-65 for all towing you'll see an improvement in any tow rig, though.

If you're going to wind up in one anyway, is there any way you can wait a year to see if the kinks are ironed out? The risk, of course, is that rising fuel costs will decrease demand and value of the V8 models.

Yes, Toyota came at it from multiple directions to make the Tundra a good competitor in the half ton market. Once they get the new model glitches (that are likely exaggerated) under control the Tundra is going to be a great truck.

 

Happens to the best of us.

 

I'm keeping a close eye on trade values, interest rates, wastegates, and qc issues.

I'd prefer to wait till at least 2023 but I can get real close to what I paid for my truck 3 years ago on trade. If that value is going to take a dive along with interest rates jumping up to 4-5% it'll either be pull the trigger or ride it out.