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2023 NERC Long-Term Reliability Assessment

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussion' started by ColoradoTJ, Dec 30, 2023.

  1. Dec 30, 2023 at 7:37 PM
    #1
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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  2. Dec 30, 2023 at 8:02 PM
    #2
    Bakershack

    Bakershack Critical of Noncritical Thinkers

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    Yet there are numerous nimrods in positions of power trying to force higher demand (EV's) while decreasing supply in the form of fossil fuels. How stupid can you get?
     
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  3. Dec 30, 2023 at 8:23 PM
    #3
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    "hold my beer" comes to mind...
     
  4. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:25 PM
    #4
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    The wife and I were chatting the other day (we work for the same organization...she is just further up the food chain than I) and some mention about being a "smart grid city" where the local utility company would have control of your thermostat AND if you have an EV total control of that as well. What the end goal would be is to use the EV's for peak shaving (high demand peak hours). So let's say your EV is plugged in and charging. The battery is at 80%. Now the time of day is around peak electrical demand and the grid needs power. Well, now they have control of your charging system and discharges the battery to 40% while sitting in your garage. Sure hope one doesn't need to go anywhere significantly. The problem I see here:

    -The obvious is left with a lower battery charge. This could be very inconvenient due to some EV's have a 205 mile range (unlike most Tesla vehicles).
    -How does one get paid back for the usage of the battery power?
    -Added cycling of the battery...who pays for the loss in battery life? (hint...the owner)
     
  5. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:28 PM
    #5
    Muleycrazy13

    Muleycrazy13 New Member

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    Interesting times ahead in power generation and distribution. I think we have gone and put the cart ahead of the horse.
     
  6. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:32 PM
    #6
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    I agree and once it's found to be too late it will be actually "too late" for a while.
     
  7. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:39 PM
    #7
    Muleycrazy13

    Muleycrazy13 New Member

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    Yep it’s not a simple project to replace the entire power grid with larger conductors because everyone went to Ev vehicles. Our homes were designed for so much electrical consumption, which also means the feeder cables from the substations and switchyards were sized accordingly. But if all of the sudden everyone is charging cars, on top of their normal usage, not only are our homes going to have issues but so is the power grid. Everything will begin to need to be upsized to handle all their new consumption.
    It’s a mess and I think the people making these decisions don’t have a dam clue what kind of trouble they are causing. But it will show itself soon enough but it will already be too late at that point….
     
  8. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:45 PM
    #8
    DexterL

    DexterL New Member

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    Solar, almost every house I see here in our neighborhood with EV’s has solar as well- that’s what I’ll be doing when we get an ev
     
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  9. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:45 PM
    #9
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    People will have to update home services as well. In most cases, this isn't a 1500.00 job.
     
  10. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:51 PM
    #10
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    This does help with demand and of course your pocket book once the panels pay for themselves (depending on how you build or buy the panels). You also have to live in an area with high production. Lucky for you, your city has 210 days per year that is sunny/partially overcast (under 30%). Solar makes sense for you if it can be purchased reasonably. If you have the property, I would put it on racks at ground level.
     
  11. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:56 PM
    #11
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    I thank my 2015 self all the time for installing a 400A service. :D
     
  12. Dec 30, 2023 at 9:58 PM
    #12
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    No kidding? Damn.
     
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  13. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:06 PM
    #13
    Muleycrazy13

    Muleycrazy13 New Member

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    Solar doesnt charge your car at night, which is when most people will charge their vehicle.
     
  14. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:13 PM
    #14
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    He is probably just wanting the credits so when he does charge, it goes against his credits and not an added bill.
     
  15. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:14 PM
    #15
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    Yeah buddy, I also wired in a 100A generator panel feeding critical circuits.

    I would love solar backup if SHTF but it doesn't make financial sense with our power prices here.
     
  16. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:22 PM
    #16
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Even with 250 days of sun here at my place (sure doesn't feel like it!!!) it doesn't make sense unless I build it myself and pay it off from day one. With enough production and maintenance (washing the panels/keeping snow off) they should pay for themselves in around 8 years. I have an acquaintance from CA that moved close to us that built solar systems (large units) and he said that is the way to go. Renting them and paying 30K+ for a simple system is nuts. My electric bill is around 130.00 a month now with the hot tub (40.00 of it is hot tub). Once I replace my windows again the efficiency to my home will go back up.
     
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  17. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:50 PM
    #17
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    Lol, they claim 300 days of sunshine around here in Eastern WA.

    Yeah, that's crazy. I would do the same, build it out myself.
    Do you have any gas appliances?
     
  18. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:52 PM
    #18
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    I have a gas 6 burner cooktop and gas grill on the outdoor kitchen area.
     
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  19. Dec 30, 2023 at 10:59 PM
    #19
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Interesting enough the organization I work for just put in for 1500 MW of power. 365 MW is gas. We were hoping to build another combined cycle with bypass stacks but that gets shot down by the governors office. So looks like a bunch of peakers (LM6000's) to match the demand. Bad thing is we don't have the natural gas pipelines in CO to accommodate the need. Hopefully we can get some more pipelines down from Wyoming.

    So we have to rely on a little bit of hydro's we have (and this is for water demand, not power demand), solar, and wind. Last week we had amazing wind power that averaged out to 3800+ MW's (out of ~4900 MW possible). Tonight we haven't seen over 300MW of wind and right now is 79 MW out of 4900 MW. Power is a little tighter tonight.
     
  20. Dec 31, 2023 at 12:49 AM
    #20
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    What are peakers?

    Our plant has wild swings in generation regularly.
    A few factors; headwater levels, power marketers making peak/off peak deals with Seattle and California, wind generation and local weather extremes.

    Tonight we're running about 80% capacity, I'm guessing the wind is calm so we're loaded up more than normal. Last week we hit the plant minimum MW setting and were down to one unit!
     
  21. Dec 31, 2023 at 1:16 AM
    #21
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Peakers are simple cycle turbines for fast response.

    We have six LM2500's (27 MW at this elevation), two frame 6 GE turbines (33 MW each).
     
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  22. Dec 31, 2023 at 6:58 AM
    #22
    Muleycrazy13

    Muleycrazy13 New Member

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    The company I work for put in 6 lm6000s. There was some growing pains but they got them dialed in now. I’m currently working at the nuclear plant here in Az. We are cranking out 4200MW all the time except for refueling outages.
     
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  23. Dec 31, 2023 at 12:38 PM
    #23
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    That is awesome, and I thought my hydro plant was big @ 1300MW :laugh:

    Is that a federal project?
     
  24. Dec 31, 2023 at 12:52 PM
    #24
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Damn Brody...moving up in the world. :D

    The nuclear world is a whole different game isn't it? One of my electricians worked at that plant. Great money but a pain to get anything done.
     
  25. Dec 31, 2023 at 12:54 PM
    #25
    ColoradoTJ

    ColoradoTJ [OP] Certified tow LEO Staff Member

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    Well 1300MW isn't small either. Considering our biggest hydro is 28MW...:rofl:
     
  26. Dec 31, 2023 at 1:06 PM
    #26
    Muleycrazy13

    Muleycrazy13 New Member

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    No it’s been around for quite some time. 3 reactors. Each turbine gen set is 1400 MW
     
  27. Dec 31, 2023 at 1:07 PM
    #27
    Muleycrazy13

    Muleycrazy13 New Member

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    It’s a great plant with some really good people but I agree it’s ridiculous to get anything done. I miss the combined cycle plants.
     
  28. Dec 31, 2023 at 1:08 PM
    #28
    Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Chillin' in Alamosa

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    I worked a couple years for SoCal Edison. SCE had their own calibration lab. We supported all the calibrations for San Onofre Nuke Plant. NRC regs were a total pain. Great pay though non union. Shut the plant. End of story. Ha!
     
  29. Dec 31, 2023 at 1:16 PM
    #29
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    :D

    Do you guys have any big hydros in CO?
     
  30. Dec 31, 2023 at 1:31 PM
    #30
    NWPirate

    NWPirate Give me overtime or give me death

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    That's crazy, what RPM are those spinning online?
     

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