2019 Crewmax TRD @45K upgrade or new 2022, will be offroad towing a 21 Black Series camper

Hi everyone, first time posting here, and I have a few questions to help make a decision.

As my headline shows, I'm on the fence about upgrading to a 2022, likely the Liminted TRD Off Road if I do. I just purchased a Black Series 21foot off road camper that is made for the back country , it weighs 7000lb empty.

I'm considering keeping the 2019 and upgrading to 35" tires and a minimal suitable lift for my intended purpose. The new vehicle is very appealing but my current V8 is still in great shape and to be honest, the little real world fuel savings is not going to ever make up the difference I'll have to pay out.

Anyway, suggested lift kits for towing and AT tires that are more suited to a daily driver is what I'm looking for. I can put up with a slightly stiffer ride for the stronger tire but would prefer to keep the noise levels to a minimum so a aggressive off road mud and rock tire are not on the menu.

cheers

 

Unless you have money to burn keep your 2019. You're exactly right when you said the little real world field savings is not going to make up the difference in upgrading to the 2022. Even if you broke even on price the sales tax and other fees would get you. To answer your questions I really like the Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs that are on my truck currently. I'm sure others will chime in with recommended suspension upgrades. There are tons of options. Good luck and happy camping.

 

Welcome and greetings from Minnesota. My personal opinion would be to keep the 2019 with the V-8. If you like the updated design, give it a year to let them work the bugs out and upgrade to a 23 or 24.

 

Welcome aboard! I have a 2019 limited TRD as well and tow a 7000# camper with it. I’m a little disbelieving that someone designed a “backcountry” camper that weighs 7000#. Can’t imagine dragging my 7000# camper off-road.

 

It's 7000LB for a good reason, to remain intact whilst navigating over back country terrain. I'm sure it could be made lighter but so expensive most would not buy it, even the current pricing is really steep. When you look at the chassis, the off road four wheel independent suspension, the ground clearance and wheels you quickly realize it is purpose built, for sure, very heavy. I've seen the results of others trying to do the same off road with a standard trailer , it always ends with a major failure of the chassis or suspension.

How is your fuel burn towing the 7000lb rig , I suspect around 9MPG from what I have read?

Cheers

 

On flat ground, at 55mph, slight wind to the back and summer blend fuel. I just can’t imagine trying to drag that 7000# over uneven terrain or loose terrain, or god forbid even a mild obstacle. What exactly do they mean by back country?

 

Welcome from NY.
Keep the 2019.

 

Just looked up the Black Series campers. Pretty dope. $pendy, but definitely purpose built. It lists 1000# of tongue weight. Thats empty. That’s gonna present some problems towing with a truck that has 1300-1500lbs of payload. The all show the 19 and 21 series being towed by 3/4 to. Trucks. They do have a tundra towing what I believe is the HQ17. I’m sure it is possible to pull the 21 with a Tundra, but certainly not the optimum setup if your gonna be dragging it around off road.

 

Here is his trailer. Been looking at them for years. I’m jealous.

https://www.blackseries.net/travel-trailers/hq21.html

 

Money is not an issue to be honest, but like most, I don't like to burn it, so to speak. Upgrading just to be in a new vehicle is not something I normally do, unless there is a legitimate reason, in this case the price for my 2019 being offered as a trade is actually substantial, the loss so minimal over the new price that it almost covers the differential for a warranty. With the price to trade up so inviting , it has me considering an upgrade even though it's sooner than I would normally have , even then, it goes against my usual upgrade time line.

I may just add a slight lift and larger tires to the 2019 for the off-road, one thing I do need though is a locking differential as security pulling a back country off-road camper. That I would need to consider very strongly well if I am to go in some of the tougher spots. To add these items I'm likely to spend 10K and have to hang on to the rig another two years minimum or buy a 2022 with rear diff locker . If I wait a couple of years at least the new gen 3 would have proven it self OR by that time we might have a worthy full electric or at least a hybrid that actually offers increased fuel economy. The Hybrid offered in the 2022 is actually useless in any way as it adds no additional fuel economy ( actually less for highway driving), and no increased performance other than numbers on paper as 0-60 times are identical. All you get is a greater price point with increased weight and complexity, and no way to know if the new platform will stand up over time, where as the V8 and gen 2.5 is a million mile truck if serviced properly.

 

Honestly you just surprised me with that tongue weight, I'll have to look into this ASAP, something I obviously overlooked, a huge miss on my part. To be honest I've never heard of a tongue weight that high, and I've been towing gear for decades, personally and for work.
One thing for sure, rear springs are much more acceptable for towing with a greater tongue load, otherwise air bags have to be used, so now I have to look at this a little closer. The HQ21 was actually paid in full yesterday, now I have to consider my options moving forward, no turning back now.

A big miss and surprise, thank-you for the heads up.

Robert

 

That camper would be better suited to a 3/4 ton setup. If your selling the truck and upgrading (as one of the possibilities) then I would look into those. Ford Tremor, GMC AT4 3/4 ton.

 

Also looks like you can’t run a WDH with that hitch setup?

 

Welcome from LA (Lower Alabama)! I was wondering why you would lift and get bigger tires for towing, but then you posted that you wanted them for off-road improvement. But with the 1000# tongue weight, it sounds like you would be stretching the sticker capabilities of thee Tundra once you have all your other gear loaded. A 3/4T would likely give you more confidence when fully loaded and on the road.

 

I would sooner add a locker to the 2019 if it’s that important. The 2022 locker is stupid because it can only be used in 4lo. If I’m going to have a locker I’d rather have an aftermarket unit like the Eaton E locker that I can engage whenever I please and I don’t have to abide by my trucks stupid locker engagement requirements. If I have a locker I wanna be able to use it in 2WD or 4x4 high.

All that aside, all of the posts on the 3rd gen forum bringing up little issues here and there (some more major) would have me at least waiting 1-2 years on the new model. Don’t forget, If you’re hauling a camper offroad you’re going to want front tow hooks for a forward facing recovery….

 

Thanks for your input. Just realized I failed to state my location, a Canadian here from NL on the East coast , just North East of NY. I may very well keep the 2019 as you suggest, apparently with air bags installed it is more than up to the task . My 2019, from what I can find, says it's only rated 500 lb for tongue weight, the new 2022 are all rated at 1150 for max tongue weight, so for the newer Gen 3 I may very well be ok without adding air bags. My local dealer just advised he has a 2022 black TRD Pro arrive that was turned down by those who ordered it, and it has the rear diff locker I would need, plus the additional low end torque from the Hybrid. Given the Hybrid drive-train has a 10year 250K mileage 100% guarantee, I guess it is worth consideration, plus the black TRD with red interior is a perfect colour match for the Black series camper. Anyway, a few things to consider, at least there are options and according to feedback, a 1/2 ton pickup is more than suited to the task, with some minor adjustments.

 

First TRD pro I’ve heard of being delivered!

 

I think that sticker rating of 1150lb (which has been discussed many times on the forum) is going to be significantly reduced by the "options packages" and "trim levels"; Meaning, that 1150# number is likely for a 2wd regular cab 6.5' bed. not your optioned-out TRD Pro. I'd imagine you're going to be well over 1000# TW once you load that trailer and the truck with gear etc.

TL;DR = look at a ¾ ton truck for that trailer. I think your overall "overlanding" experience will be much more enjoyable, if thats what you really want to do with it.

 

I do believe the tongue weight rating is 1,020 lbs, not 500.

 

Are there good backcountry off-roading spots in NL? I keep meaning to make it up there and do a loop through HV Goose Bay back down to NY. We made it as far as Halifax a couple of years ago but were running out of time.

 

I've seen two specs sheets with the 500 tongue weight number, I like yours much better and to be honest, it would seem more correct as the tongue weight is usually based on 10% of the towing
capability . I actually towed a 8500 LB load a week ago for work, the actual overall weight easily handled with the 2019 5.7 V8, my only limitation was road conditions, hills and highway speeds was
easy. I was able to adjust the load to keep the tongue weight balanced, even then it really collapsed the springs,so for sure I'd need air bags installed to make this work. I'm more concerned about the
legality of this as any accident liability would be void if the vehicle limitations were exceeded, so if the 2019 spec for tongue weight is actually rated 1020, then I'm good to go, as towing a 10K load is
actually no issue for this vehicle.
TW, someone mentioned WDH , it cannot be used with these trailers unless the full articulating hitch is removed which essentially removes it's off road capability, therefor the full 1000lb tongue weight has to be managed, so air bag setup will be necessary regardless of the year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=176btkN-aVo

This is an idea of the typical realistic application for these full size campers off road. They can be used in rough terrain whereas a normal chassis will often bend.

 

Excellent, these numbers make sense for the 2019 which means I'm actually legal to use the 2019 for towing, I'll just need an air bag. I'm still trying to determine if the TRD Pro I'm being offered is acceptable but
hate to admit, I'm really not fond of the black where I live as it will always be dirty. I've chosen white for my last two vehicles, simply because I don't want to feel the need to wash my vehicle almost daily . It would
certainly look great with the colour scheme of the trailer, but considering I'm only hitched up a fraction of the time, coordinating the colours is really not important......almost.

 

It’s technically not a legal issue in most states to tow over your numbers. It’s a legal issue to tow dangerously, which is subject to law enforcement judgement. Being over your numbers in a sketchy towing scenario will certainly help make their case. I think your issue is going to be capability. Is your 2019 capable of towing a 7000# trailer? Yes. Is it capable of handling 1000# plus tongue weight? Really pushing the limits there. Air bags are not the fix all for rear end sagging. Weight distribution is a better fix, but doesn’t look like an option with that trailer. You can always set your current rig up as optimally as possible and see how the tow experience is. If you decide it’s too close to the limits and not a comfortable tow, you can upgrade your rig then.

 

OP @roxiedog13 if you're driving a crew max and the tongue weight of that trailer is actually 1000#, you're over your capacity by at least 20# (technically). Options, trim packages, gear (both in the truck and on the trailer) will make that discrepancy more severe.

 

Getting to NL, an Island you have to take a ferry from Nova Scotia, to then get to Labrador ( Goose Bay) you'll have to take another ferry to get there, it's an undertaking for sure. But as back country goes, NL has plenty to access via a network of logging roads, and then you have thousands of rural community roads each with branches that allow access to a vast majority of places. To be honest, with the vast distances between places even on the highway you'll often feel as though you are in the back country. Try off roading in these mountains! Obviously the roads are the only way to access the back country, but there are thousands of miles of roads, you'll not run out of options, that's for sure.

A few images taken from my airplane attached.

 

According to the table above, the Tundra I have can take 1020LB on the tongue, the 1000lb shown from the manufacturer is actually the max possible tongue weight when the trailer is fully loaded to 10,000LB. I think the number is around 700LB empty. So even in the worst case, I am "legally" covered. I'll have to add air bags regardless, plus, I have learned there is a WDH made for these off road full articulating hitches, they are used for highway and roads, only to disconnect when actually using in off road conditions. The truck can easily handle the trailer weight, with this knowledge and the WDH I should be ok.

 

Your thread title says you have a crewmax. And I’m assuming it’s 4x4 (given your intent with the trailer). The table posted by @KNABORES shows your max tongue weight to be 980#. Do you have a different table?

 

OK, I stand corrected, 980 it is, but that is for a 2018, I have a 2019, not that it's vastly different. Per my actual owners manual I am allowed a max trailer weight of 9800lb, the trailer is rated to 10,000lb. The tongue weight per the manual says 9-11% of the max trailer weight is allowed, so in a maximum loaded worst cast 11% of 9800 is 1078LB. So even in a max loaded condition, I will not exceed the legal rating, I'll just have to be cognoscente of the loading and not exceed it. Yes it would be at the wire for a fully loaded situation, but given manufacturers design in a significant margin for failure, as long as I keep it within this value, I'll be good. The truck will not have a problem towing this weight, I've done this time and time before.

One thing the manual did say is that anything over 500 lb tongue weight would require a weight distribution hitch, in this case it means this is required ALL the time as the minimum is 700lb. Up until last evening no manufacture offered a WDH for these off road swivel hitches, at least not in the US or Canada. I did in fact find a specialized company that does offer this WDH for my application, I'm ordering one today.

When you think about it, who has the ability to weigh a trailer prior to departure, many, if not most overload these trailers for long trips and few actually use WDH. It's not just campers either, utility trailers are more
often overloaded than most realize. I'll keep it on the lower end of the weight range and I will use the WDH, legal and safe.

Appreciate the feedback everyone, regardless if I keep the 2019 or upgrade, I'm within the margins. I will also add air bags just to add another layer of stability and safety.

 

Good luck with this sir, although that’s not how any of this really works. Justifying your current situation is what most of us do. You’ve got a non-matching pair of truck and trailer. You may be able to scab together a working solution. That trailer needs a 3/4 ton or more capable truck. Or, swap the Coupling for a standard one and run WDH full time and don’t off road with it.