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2018+ Insturment Cluster Swap on 2014-2017 Trucks. Everything I know so far.

Discussion in '2.5 Gen Tundras (2014-2021)' started by Jeff_5_7, Apr 26, 2022.

  1. Apr 26, 2022 at 3:23 PM
    #1
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    I have had a few people randomly send me PM's asking about the abilty to swap a 2018+ Instrument cluster into an older Tundra (2014-2017). I decided I would just post a thread with all the information I know so that it could help someone else one day.

    Intro:

    This this the 2014-2017 Instrument Cluster. Not horrible but also not great. Hands down the biggest flaw is no Digital Speed readout on the display. Also it only lights up when you turn the parking/headlights on. During the day it looks dim/dull with no backlight on.
    upload_2022-4-26_16-19-7.jpg

    This is the 2018-2021 Instrument Cluster. I would say its has a little more modern look with the square gauges.
    upload_2022-4-26_16-21-21.jpg



    WHY?
    The biggest benefit of swapping to the 2018+ Cluster is the look obviously The clusters are the same size and shape so technically its a direct bolt in. A huge bonus on the new one is the factory digital speed readout.


    Can it actually be done?
    Theoretically yes, however to my knowledge nobody has officially accomplished this yet and here is why...



    Issues: Simply put, NO it is not a direct plug and play and I believe Toyota made it this way on purpose.

    To understand the real differences between the two clusters we have to look at some background information. In 2018 Toyota came out with a slightly updated Tundra. The biggest change was the addition of the Toyota Safety Sense System which includes things like Pre Collision Detection, Dynamic Radar Cruise, Lane Departure Alert, Rear Cross Traffic Alert ect. The addition of these systems greatly increased the amount of ECUs (computers) in the truck that communicate with each other. This is also the time the newer style cluster was first offered in the Tundra.

    Additionally, the new Toyota Safety Sense systems have warnings, messages, controls, inputs that are all now displayed on the cluster to provide information to the driver about potential collisions, or lane departure ect.

    The 2014-2017 trucks do not have any of these Safety Sense ECUs. They do not have near as many ECUs nor communicate near as much data on the network as the newer updated Tundra.

    The second quick bit of background information is the CAN Bus. CAN (Communication Area Network) is simply a 2 wire network that links all of the ECUs in the truck together to allow them to communicate with each other. Think of it as a railroad track almost, in which several train stations on the same rail line. Each ECU of the truck is a station (Engine ECU, Body Control Module, ABS ECU, Instrument Cluster, Airbag ECU, 4WD ECU) and they are part of the same track (2 wire line). Linking them together on the same line means any single ECU can communicate with any other single ECU at a very fast rate. I mention all of this because a large majority of the gauges in the instrument clusters are controlled by messages from specific ECUS on the CAN bus.

    Messages on the CAN bus? What is that.... Its simple. Any ECU can send out a message on the CAN bus. The message consist of an address, (to let the other ECUs know where the message came from and if its important to them or not) and the actual data which is 8 bytes long.

    For example Address 0x1C4 means the data is coming from the Engine ECU. Data 19 07 00 00 00 00 00 00 is 8 bytes of Hexadecimal data. In this case the 19 07 values (first two bytes) represent the Engine RPM value (with a conversion applied) that drives the RPM gauge needle.



    Ok enough of the boring stuff, long story short if you connect a 2018+ cluster to a 2017 or older truck it will not be happy at all. You will get all kinds of warning messages show up, only about half the gauges (needles) will actually function. Its a real mess and completely undriveable in this condition.

    Why? Because to 2018+ cluster is looking for communication messages from the Safety Sense ECUs that do not exist in your older truck. When the cluster doesn't see the forward facing radar ,for example, on the network it automatically displays an error message on the screen. Same for the Pre Collision, Lane Departure, systems.

    upload_2022-4-26_17-28-21.jpg

    The needle gauges that no longer function are because the CAN data has moved addresses. If you look above you see I mentioned the RPM value to control the needle on the gangue is on CAN address 1C4. Well with the addition of the TSS ECUS Toyota moved a lot of data around on the communication network. The 2018 Cluster will be looking for the RPM signal on the CAN 2C4 address because the 2018+ Engine ECU broadcast it from there. The 2017 and older truck broadcast RPM from 1C4. Essentially the newer cluster will be looking in the wrong location for data to drive the needles of the gauge, so they will not operate at all.




    The Fix?
    I have spent almost a full year now mapping and playing with both the 2014-2017 and 2018-2021 CAN Bus networks. In my opinion the only way to ever get the 2018 cluster to properly work is to build a custom inline CAN Bus data translator.

    This would be a module that plugs in between the 2017 body harness and the 2018 cluster. It would generate "fake" CAN messages to simulate the Toyota Safety Sense ECUs being present. This would turn off all the warning displays on the new cluster. The device would also then read in the CAN data from the 2017 truck and translate/move it to the proper new address the 2018 cluster is looking for. IE it would read in the data on the 1C4 address from the Engine ECU and then turn around and send that same data out on the 2C4 address where the new cluster is looking for it.

    I have tested this with my 2018 benchtop cluster and it works. Currently I can send CAN signals from my laptop to make everything run properly and smooth. The ONLY thing I am missing is getting the new cluster to calculate a distance to empty on fuel.


    upload_2022-4-26_17-29-17.jpg







    List of Gauges that will work between 2017 to 2018
    Speedometer (Including new digital Speed in 2018)
    Fuel Gauge (As long as you don't mix Flex Fuel and Non Flex Fuel Clusters/Trucks)
    Voltage Gauge
    Ambient Temp

    List of Gauges that will NOT work between 2017 to 2018
    RPM (Data moved to different CAN address)
    Oil Pressure (Oil Pressure Gauge only works with a valid RPM Signal)
    Coolant Temp (Data moved to different CAN address)
    Fuel Mileage Information Instant MPG, Avg MPG, Range (Data moved to different CAN address)


    Some other concerns to think about:

    Blinkers (Flasher Relay) - 2018 Tundra uses all LED lighting, it doesn't have a traditional flasher relay to control the blinker indicators ect.

    Tire Pressure Warning System- 2018+ TPMS has a display screen with tire pressure values, the 2017 TPMS data will not be read by the newer cluster without modification.


    Check Engine Light - 2018 Check Engine Light runs on a digital CAN signal, 2017 Check engine light runs on a analog wired signal.

    Steering Wheel Controls - 2018 has a full directional pad to control the instrument cluster display. You will not be able to properly scroll through the screens of the newer cluster without updating the steering wheel controls.

    This should be a really good start for anyone considering this swap. I think I have made the most progress of anyone on actually being able to pull it off. I may come back here and update information later on but at least now you understand how big of a task this really is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2022
  2. Apr 26, 2022 at 4:09 PM
    #2
    intr3nsic

    intr3nsic New Member

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    Wow, props for the work done so far.
     
  3. Apr 26, 2022 at 4:23 PM
    #3
    PRO BLANCO

    PRO BLANCO Dirt biking & fishing

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    Thanks for the write up, great info!
     
  4. Apr 26, 2022 at 4:28 PM
    #4
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    Awesome post as usual!
     
  5. Jun 18, 2022 at 10:16 AM
    #5
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Getting close to actually pulling this off thanks to some motivation from @e30cabrio. Somthing I once thought was impossible.

    I did the first test drive of a 2018 cluster running on my 2007 truck this morning.I believe this to be the first working 2018+ cluster in an older truck.

    I built a prototype CAN bus translator and installed it in line with the cluster harness.

    Lots of coding and testing with more to do still. The translator remaps all CAN values to make the new cluster needle gauges function. Need to do some more work to finialize little things like Range, correct MPG, cruise control ect. Seems Toyota changed the fuel milage algorithm in the cluster.

    799BC311-CA06-4629-98A7-D11ABAE213E9.jpg
    6181C095-1D0F-4E68-891A-9B080B7028FD.jpg
    90DC0ED7-A1C2-4018-84B8-02D01A677F2C.jpg
    4BCF3F41-6DFE-4009-8148-E27009524D1C.jpg
    6423CA9B-BF0F-4A68-992B-865B63B3F2FB.jpg
    7B49C8D2-AD60-4B43-8CB9-C4AAC66A10EE.jpg
     
  6. Jun 27, 2022 at 7:45 PM
    #6
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Was able to crack the “Range” and Fuel MPG today. Both are working now. With some more driving and testing I will verify accuracy ect.

    5DB48F50-E584-492B-B856-EA867CDF6CCB.jpg
    3C84D90F-1394-479B-BBCC-1691A5881580.jpg
     
  7. Jun 27, 2022 at 10:33 PM
    #7
    NickB_01TRD

    NickB_01TRD You don't need less cars, just more driveway.

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    This is really cool stuff. Might come in handy more as the years go on. May be able to make a few bucks if you could build CAN bus translators for other people to do conversions with.
     
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  8. Jul 5, 2022 at 1:12 PM
    #8
    armozo

    armozo New Member

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    @Jeff_5_7 Keep up the good work. Count me in when time comes to make money from your efforts. I would be an early adapter for sure. Cheers
     
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  9. Jul 5, 2022 at 1:49 PM
    #9
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    Works on Sequoias too!

    All thanks to Jeff's big brain!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:26 PM
    #10
    armozo

    armozo New Member

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    Where are you guys sourcing the clusters from?
     
  11. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:32 PM
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    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    I got that one from a junk yard, took almost a year to find with a search on car-part.com. I ordered a new one from Toyota because my Sequoia is flex & the gas gauge is wildly off. (over 1/4 tank)
     
  12. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:34 PM
    #12
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Junkyards, mine came from California but I’m in Texas. They are still kinda hard to find. Make sure you do some research into part numbers and get the one with the right options. 26 or 38 gal fuel tank, parking sensor or not ect. Flex fuel or non flex fuel.


    www.Car-part.Com is a great website. Very powerful.

    We are still very much in beta testing. I wrote all the code and @e30cabrio is testing it on his Sequoia as I also test on my Tundra to work the bugs out. I have sent him a few updated revisions.

    Building and offering a plug and play harness is an option one day but it’s time consuming to create. Really want to work the bugs out of my prototype first. Shoot me a PM if you are really interested. I would be interested to see how well it works in a 2014. My Tundra is an 07, the Sequoia a 2013

    Its @e30cabrio s fault we have made it this far. He wouldn’t stop messaging me until I wrote the code hhahahah. But he had also purchased like half an entire Sequoia in an attempt to make his work.

    I think so far we are both very happy with results.
     
  13. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:39 PM
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    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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  14. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:39 PM
    #14
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    I'm happy to take credit for being a PITA.

    lol
     
  15. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:42 PM
    #15
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Looking back now I wasn’t that interested at first. I had all the information to make it happen was just missing the final piece with the code. You were the motivation behind making me actually do it. I had kinda written it off several months prior.
     
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  16. Jul 5, 2022 at 6:58 PM
    #16
    Millwood21

    Millwood21 New Member

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    This is awesome! Nice work. I have a 2017 platinum. If I could come up with a cluster I would def be interested in this. I was wanting an 18 prior to my purchase. Mainly because of the cluster and front end with LEDs. But I saved thousands by getting the 17 over the 18. So far I’ve changed my front end and converted to LEDs. If this works and you offer some kind of harness in the future I’m all in! Long as I can source a cluster that is.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2022
  17. Jul 5, 2022 at 7:14 PM
    #17
    14CRWMX

    14CRWMX New Member

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    https://www.toyotapartsprime.com/genuine/toyota-meter_assembly_combination-838000ct50.html
    It's $424 and probably shipping. If i could buy proper harness definitely would upgrade
     
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  18. Jul 5, 2022 at 7:26 PM
    #18
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    Serra Toyota of Decatur has free shipping & does not charge tax out of state, I ordered mine from there. They are slow to ship & need the Vin and a picture of mileage. (that part I assume is any dealer) and they told me they ordered it from Denso and it will eventually come direct from them.

    fyi
     
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  19. Jul 5, 2022 at 7:33 PM
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    armozo

    armozo New Member

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    I will be in a hunt for a cluster :) @Jeff_5_7... I will PM so we can start chatting about this... You are incredible man. The conversion from 2007 to 2018+ is incredible. I am glad toyota evolves its vehicles instead of being revolutionary with their changes.
     
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  20. Jul 5, 2022 at 7:59 PM
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    Millwood21

    Millwood21 New Member

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    Do you a link to them? I may look into these options. Being as high as they are I would like to make sure I could get a harness built before committing to buying one I wouldn’t ever be able to use tho.
     
  21. Jul 5, 2022 at 8:00 PM
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    14CRWMX

    14CRWMX New Member

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    So they were fine with you ordering for sequoia as long you sent mileage and vin? Thanks for the info
     
  22. Jul 5, 2022 at 8:12 PM
    #22
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    Yup, when they asked I said I modded my '13 and need a flex cluster & sent my vin & picture of my stock cluster, they placed the order.

    https://parts.toyotaofdecatur.com/

    That's their link.
     
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  23. Jul 5, 2022 at 8:20 PM
    #23
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Side note, @e30cabrio hasnt actually received his yet but hopefully soon. I was worried the dealer was going to call him crazy for buying an 18 cluster and sending a 13 vin.

    It’s in order so we will soon see.
     
  24. Jul 5, 2022 at 8:24 PM
    #24
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    That is true but they said once they place the order I can't cancel & they said they placed the order on 7/1.
     
  25. Jul 14, 2022 at 5:23 PM
    #25
    e30cabrio

    e30cabrio I'm e30cabrio, I'm a modaholic

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    I just got tracking, it is coming from the dealer.
     
  26. Sep 21, 2022 at 6:47 PM
    #26
    RainMan_PNW

    RainMan_PNW SSEM #82 RGBA #4 “That Guy”

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    Check the build link in my signature.
    FYI - from some research I’ve been doing, it appears that in addition to the 26 vs 38 gallon fuel gage, parking sonar functionality is dependent on the specific model of instrument cluster.
    I’ve got a cluster inbound to try to confirm.
     
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  27. Sep 21, 2022 at 7:32 PM
    #27
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Yes if you study part numbers close enough you will see some are denoted for Flexfuel or non Flexfuel. After 2012 the Flexfuel sender in the tank operates on a different resistance range from the non flex. All values are offset by 100Ohm if I remember correctly.

    Fuel tank size is also noted between the part numbers. 26 gal or 38 gal.

    Parking or Sonar sensors are also optional depending on cluster part number. I don’t have much work with a cluster with sonar but I assume it’s just an added pop up alert and beep. My newest 2014 cluster has Sonar but I haven’t played with it much.

    I now have 5 Tundra instrument clusters laying around. 1) 2007, 3) 2014-2017 1)2018

    To me all the hardware seems the same between the year ranges. The maps for all the gauges seem to be stored in the EEPROM. Basically the part number denotes which EEPROM programming you have. This data maps stepper motor positions for the needles based on CAN messages received. Theoretically if you reverse engineered the EEPROM you could program the cluster to be any size fuel tank operating on any range from sender. Sonar could be turned on/off. Speedometer could be “corrected” for tire size ect.

    Unfortunately the EEPROM data is checksum protected. Changing any value without recalculating the checksum makes the cluster ignore the map in the EEPROM. I know this because I erased the entire EEPROM on one of my 2014 clusters. I then played back CAN data and none of the gauges responded. Re uploading the EEPROM made everything work again. Changing only one byte in the EEPROM make the cluster act like the EEPROM was completely blank again. Gotta find the checksum bytes and crack the algorithm to update them.

    I considered collecting as many EEPROM dumps as possible to do an analyses of common bytes based on features but that would be ALOT of work with the only gain the ability to remap gauge needle positions and ranges.

    I did all this hoping the graphics for the LCD where stored in the EEPROM and changing some Hex values would give other colors. Spoiler they are not. Display functions the exact same way with or without EEPROM data.All graphic data is stored deep inside the flash memory of the microcontroller and access to it is protect by an intense seed-key challenge that nobody knows the algorithm too. I tried brute force cracking it for days with no luck.
     
  28. Sep 21, 2022 at 7:43 PM
    #28
    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    I should add to me this all lines up with @e30cabrio experience ordering a brand new cluster. He gave him his VIN and told them which options he wanted. 26 gal tank Flexfuel with no sonar and they programmed his cluster before shipping.

    By program it seems they wrote the corresponding EEPROM data to map the cluster to his options.
     
  29. Sep 21, 2022 at 7:52 PM
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    RainMan_PNW

    RainMan_PNW SSEM #82 RGBA #4 “That Guy”

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    If you had a specific EEPROM “Model”, would you be able to flash that to a different one to get the missing/different functionality? I.E. if you had a 38-gallon sonar non-flex cluster, could you take a copy of that chip and write it to a different unit and have it function with the first unit’s functions?

    And what about the ODO, which I know is stored in the cluster? Is that on a separate chip, or in the same one as the functions?
     
  30. Sep 21, 2022 at 8:11 PM
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    Jeff_5_7

    Jeff_5_7 [OP] New Member

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    Theoretically yes if you had an EEPROM dump from a cluster of certain parameters I think you could flash that into a similar cluster to remap it to your dump. I have never tried it however. If I had a 38 gal flex EEPROM dump I could flash it to my 26 gal non flex bench cluster and verify it does in fact change the maps.

    I guess I could isolate the sonar control commands from my new cluster. Then put that EEPROM in my non Sonar cluster and see if it will then respond to the same Sonar commands.

    Clever that your bring up ODO. It is in fact stored in the same EEPROM chip. However it is a separate section at the top. After ODO you see a few lines of no data then the gauges maps. Since the ODO is dynamic, always changing it is not part of the checksum calculation. Only the data in the map section is. It is static data that never increments so check sum for that portion is hardcoded to protect it from modification.
     
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