**Buyer Beware**

Manufacturer-to-consumer is a model that I'm a huge fan of.

It's taking over the mountain bike world, with brands like Canyon, YT, and Airborne selling direct. You can get a better spec'd bike for less money than you would for an equal bike at a shop. The profit margin on current model year bikes from a shop is close to 50%, that's just nuts. The dealer model is outdated and not sustainable. A bike that might cost $1000 to manufacturer is sold to a dealer for $2000, retail is $5000, the dealer sells it to you for $4000, you still think you got a deal. Meanwhile you can buy a better bike direct from manufacturer for $2000....

This applies to a lot of other markets as well. Food, furniture, mattresses, appliances... I would love to see auto manufacturers shift to a direct sale model.

Side note....I'm also an Elon supporter and believe that he is one of the greatest minds of this decade.

 

Service is the only reason that the dealerships are still alive. If it were just sales then it would already be done. Also remember the used car market. Finally we are rather blind to what really happens at the dealership. My Toyota salesman told me he is lucky if 1 out of 12 buyers has a clear title in their hand when they are "borrowing a new car". I tell my buddies that if you skip three payments then you will find out who really owns the car. 72 month notes with negative equity rolled in and then a nice little gap insurance policy to cover the stupidity of the buyer who has no idea how to manage money. All of this on an item that is a depreciating asset that costs more than any other item. Next we need to mod the piss out of the bank's truck. How you ask? Charge cards!!! Finally we are mostly talking about Toyota trucks which depreciate the least of any vehicle and are very dependable. Lets look at Kia's!

 

I bought mine from Mountain States Toyota, I had 5 chat windows from 5 surrounding dealerships going at the same time for the preliminary negotiation before I took the drive to MST.

The numbers they gave over the chat were near identical once I arrived. I got dinged $300 on a couple scratches on my trade but that was it. Plus no nagging $588 dealer handling BS either. Once in the finance room, I prefaced my sit down with, 'I am not interested in any add on or extended warranties' - I had to initial a couple pages noting my refusal, and was done.

Highly recommend MST Denver

 

I've had good sales experiences with both Mountain States Toyota and Groove Toyota. Got my best deal online and fair deal on trade. Told them I wouldn't put up with any extra sales tactics in the finance office and they both honored that.

I use Stevinson Toyota West for my free oil changes and warranty service cause they're close to where I work, and their service department has been very good.

 

I also had a pretty good experience buying my Tundra at Mountain States Toyota back in 2014. I feel they tried to low ball me on my trade in, but they quickly gave me what I wanted for it once I showed them my pricing research and why I thought it was worth more than their initial offer. The guy calling the shots on the trade in price came out to shake my hand and say nice job on coming prepared to get the best deal on my trade in.

I've used Stevenson Toyota east and west for service. Stevenson West was my favorite. Nice showroom/waiting area, and I lived right around the corner.

 

And this is why I hate dealers. "Hey, nice job on coming prepared, because we were totally ready to bend you over if you weren't!" The dealer I bought mine from basically did the same with me on my purchase, initially coming out with a price over MSRP for my limited...

 

Trade-ins are part of the business! If you could buy a vehicle for 1/2 or 2/3 the market value, you would "bend them over" as well. I know I would. It seems that most first offers in life are never the "Best Offer". That is why you need to be prepared as well. I have walked on many deals from low-ball trade in offers that they claimed were fair and wouldn't even get close to book value.

 

Hey Chris, I have the same experience and relationship with the Groove Suburu internet sales person up here in Jefferson Cty. We buy a new one from him just about every 4 years or so and I walk out with no trepidation about what I just signed. It is folks like him that give the business a good name.

 

I like Groove Toyota. Bought multiple times from Groove Toyota and once from Mountains States. Both are good and will negotiate. Toyota West never gave me the best deal and said they were not going lower.

 

I grew up near Bethlehem!

 

Small world. My friend and his family still live in downtown historic Bethlehem. Where did you live in NJ?

 

Right. BUYER BEWARE...but won’t tell you who/what to beware of. Instead, complains about how they got worked by a dealer.

Hey, in case people don’t know, go into buying a vehicle like the dealership will screw you if they can. You know why? Because they will. This is nothing new.

I’m sorry, but due diligence is the responsibility of the buyer. No way I would have either 1) not seen the numbers, or 2) not noticed the numbers, when they buried an extended warranty in the deal. There was $1000+ added to the deal somewhere, and it’s all in the numbers. If you don’t ask to see the numbers and go off that payment breakdown sheet, that’s on you. Very common trick is to hide the real purchase numbers in the monthly payment.

/thread IMO

 

But to be fair, even if he did say the dealership name, onus is still on OP for being lackadaisical when buying a vehicle and not seeing/asking for the numbers to the deal rather than go off monthly payment. Wouldn’t of made a difference of who the at-fault party is (the OP).

 

It’s all been said before, but here’s my .02:
1) Expect shady deals from auto sales, dealership or independent.
2) Be happy when you encounter an ethical and fair salesman. They are out there.
3) Do your own job thoroughly, before you go and before you sign. Don’t blame shift because of your lack of diligence.
4) Always give the name of those who treat you well AND badly. “Word of mouth” needs to work both ways.

 

I think there may be a member here at the Groove Toyota so I will refrain a little. My experience with their service department has been horrendous. I kept throwing a fuse for my dash lights and they couldn’t figure it out, all they could do was blame me (at that time I had ZERO mods). So I said see you in two weeks for the 4th visit in the first 90 days (I think they knew where I was going next with starting a lemon law claim) and they brought up the head tech. Now he fixed it (took two days) but I completely lost my cool before they finally brought someone up to look at it. The reps in there just act so ‘cool’, I won’t buy there again unfortunately because the sales rep is awesome. Now Groove Subaru is a different ball game, great dealership IMO.

 

Yeah, make sure you do take your time when going into the shark tank("financing"). I caught them adding on a ~$500 charge that didn't add up and was labeled misc. When asked what was it, the shark replied "Oh, salesman didn't tell you about it?" Nope, but you better make sure you take it off now or I am walking out I replied. Took him less than 2 secs to fix it the "inaccuracy". When you go into the financing you really have to watch it. There also tried to sell me warranty when I was buying a certified car which already comes with it. Decline decline mofo!

 

I’m the same way. There’s a dealership here in the Charlotte area that I’ve had two great buying experiences with but will never buy again from because of the last handful of experiences with their service Dept. Way too many options in the area and because of it they lost two additional vehicle sales since I wrote them off. With my most recent which was my Tundra, the dealer I dealt with financing was super easy. We had already worked out the deal prior to walking into finance. The woman in finance never made an attempt to upsell me with BS. When I jokingly asked “what, no overpriced extended warranty offers?” she simply replied “no, you’ve been here long enough, I’m not going to waste your time, if you wanted it you’d of asked for it.” I was like Hell yeah, she gets it.

 

They did their research on you prior.

 

I would suggest this thread be deleted as well. To everyone who listened, thanks for understanding my frustration regardless if you agree with me or not. To those who missed my point, sorry but I can't give back the time you wasted reading this.

 

BTW...I did mention the name of the dealer later in the post.

 

Chris, this thread was both informative and helpful for many. It also provoked some good discussion. You don’t need to feel bad and apologize for how other folks waste time. Maybe it was a little off the rails from where you thought it should go, but that’s pretty much normal for the forum.

 

Kind of what I was thinking.