Explain it to me like I'm 5. Mid Travel Suspension

I don't care what words you use. I would never recommend that shock to anybody.

 

Words make a difference -
Guess what my truck exploded when i got some scratches on the side. Also my tire Failed doing 60mph when it rubbed on my fender. Haha Words make a difference. But I wouldn't recommend anything bigger than 33in tire cause it could rub and explode or fail

 

You're avoiding the real issue by attacking my word choice. The real issue is that those shocks shouldn't be sold without warnings and disclaimers

 

Just like tires too I guess.

 

Tires don't fall off of trucks

 

Your word choice is poor - Explode and failure don't fit the bill.. Yes they should be warned about rotating and torquing the top bolt correctly to minimize rotation.

 

Since you can't really get a torque wrench up there, what is the correct way to properly torque that upper bolt? When I had Fox, they recommended 5/8" above the top of the nut or something like that.

 

Ok craig, you may have the last word. I feel like I won anyway .l.. [-_-] ..l.

 

now, now, simmer down children . . .

 

We're all just a bunch of 5 year olds

 

@joonbug and @boardude icon bypasses rotated and hit caliper. I think they were a custome setup by sdhq- there was more to it.

This is a basic 2.5 ext resi fox, no rotating issue, could be install error
https://instagram.com/p/BkgJihSnC_x/
Didn’t read what actually happened.

 

So if I'm reading between the lines. (talking front suspension only for the moment.)

Mid travel involves at a minimum: Upper control arms with a greater range of travel, (Camburg / Total Chaos uniballs both fit the bill.)
and longer throw shocks, which Bilstein 6112s likely are not... but longer travel "stock length?" Fox/Icon/King 2.5" remote resi shocks likely do.

Ideally you also gusset the spindle, and cam tabs (which honestly in these trucks we should anyway...) and extend the brake lines.

Optionally add a second shock hoop, and bypass shock, to further dampen the front and really dial things in.

Is this a good TL;DR?

 

Yes.

 

Cam Tabs. What are those? 110k and still not needed. Hmmmm . #drivebetter. Haha

 

We've had a hand full of Tacomas/FJs and 4Runners that couldn't be aligned after rock crawling due to bending the tabs on the LCAs that the cam bolts adjust against.

Total Chaos sells a weld on gusset kit for them that make the adjustment tabs a hell of a lot stronger.

 

I'm pretty sure Craig was being sarcastic. He knows what they are.

 

oh... Lol...

 

haha Yeah i haven't needed them for 110k miles and have not bent mine nor has my alignment gone out. But as I am rebuilding my front suspension I am welding a bead behind the stock cam tabs only because I have everything taken apart. Not doing the gussets

 

That is what happened to the ADS on Dragos truck - the bolt that threads into the top cap pulled out somehow and then the shock rotated down under the truck and broke the welds on the rod end. That is how it fell off. That was considered a failure but it looks like Fox had a similar issue but caught before it caused more damage. They should have red lock tight on that - or at least that is what my Kings had when I swapped to longer rod ends. Maybe it was a user error when it was installed or swapped.

 

I thought dragos had his snapped at the lower shaft? I forgot, but it was a picture of him holding the shock lol.

 

I can tell you what happened to the Fox shock, and it is common with other brands as well. The driver shock mount needs clearanced, some are worse than others. Here is pics of my 18, it was bad, looks like it should have been trimmed at the ghost line.

Passenger

 

Yeah i had to clearance mine when i had Kings.

 

The top bolt pulled out of the cap and it broke at the welds where the end is welded to the rod. It had to have rotated down and under the axle to snap that off. When I picked it up off the trail there was no top bolt or end welded to the rod.

 

Ahhh. Ok that makes sense. Crazy.
Well, I would say I personally seen and installed some bad sets from various manufactures. Debate with you and Alex has very solid points, just depends on the manufacture if they make it right is all that matter in the end game.

 

Good info

 

Thanks for the education guys.

 

That problem with the fittings hitting the shock mount is not the issue that ADS has. King has that issue and probably others. Thats an easy fix, just trim the metal.

The issue with ADS is that the whole bypass rotates. Then the shock body or reservoir makes contact with various suspension parts. Most of the guys I have talked to just have damage to the shock body or reservoir. But others have had the shock fall off.

We can debate all day long about why the top nut comes loose. But the bottom line is that ADS and any vendor who sells this shock should warn people about the possibility of this happening. It doesn't matter if you need red loctite or a specific torque, THE BUYERS NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THIS.

Now, its possible other brands might have this issue. However, I have wheeled with literally dozens of different trucks, hundreds if you include the Tundras to Sedona runs. I have personally seen failures on the trail with my own eyes. I constantly have people messaging me privately on this forum, on instagram, and on facebook. I have seen (right in front of me) several Kings fail on the trail and I have several reports of failures as well. I have seen an ADS bypass fall off the truck, bend its shaft, and damage suspension parts. I have half a dozen reports of the bypass rotating and causing other types of damage. I've seen Icons fail. Toytec. I know someone just posted a Fox failure, but I have never seen nor heard of one until that post. I have 50k HARD miles on Fox products. I'm not saying that Fox are the best brand, but I am saying that in my extensive experience on the trail, they are definitely the most reliable and most durable.

Craig, just so we're clear, the definition of a "failure" is a part that stops working as designed. I don't care whether its leaking oil or falls off the truck. Either a part work 100% or it has some type of "failure".

Mods, please don't ban me...

 

For the immediate future I'm going to stay with my poverty travel suspension. Although I intend to gusset the front end for additional strength.
I do think I'll be contacting Deaver for some rear leaf springs in the not terribly distant future though.

 

OP asked to have it explained like he’s 5, and @osidepunker and @n2deep delivered by arguing in front of him.



FWIW I think the ‘fix’ for ADS is just increase the recommended torque value on the shock top nut so the damn thing doesn’t rotate. I’ve seen all the major manufacturers rotate because of the top mount design on our trucks.

Here’s the ELI5

Mid travel keeps stock geometry. Stock length arms, axles, lines and all that. Only the shock stroke is a little longer, but not by much. Otherwise it could be called Stock Travel. Mid travel gains you maybe an inch of droop through the use of a uniball or balljoint upper. Mid travel setups maintain stock track width also.

As you know, Long Travel uses longer arms, axles, lines and shocks to create a longer wheel travel.