2025 Tundra Engine is down!

Saying this as an old buck, you have to move over for the young guns as the old ones age out. If you want to bring back bullet proof reliability then don't build them with any tech inside, lose the electronics, the automation, the comms, the features, connectivity, the comforts, the air bags, traction controls, engine controls, and go back to carburetors, 3 speed column shifters, 3 pedals, manual roll up windows, tailgates with fence latches, manual seats and watch who's not buying one, which would be everyone. All would pass because no one wants to go back to that. You're living in the past to believe the old world doctors of precision machine tool lathes, milling machines, drill presses and hand assembly line workers can produce better quality than CAD/CAM, CNC machining centers, robotics assembly, automation and six sigma. Not every small block Chevy V8 went 200,000 miles although a good percentage did, GMC automatic trannies were a crapshoot at 150,000, the rattles and squeaks happen after 125 miles. No one can say there aren't going to be V35A's running around after 200K, not here at least because most of you didn't keep your last truck that long either, but they're out there or will be in time. So why worry? You've got a warranty, you unloaded your last one to have this one, and will probably do the same thing again. Enjoy it now. I love mine, look forward to driving it all the time.

 

all I can go by is my experience for my own vehicles

2023 tundra platinum, - no problems so far
2023 AWD 25th anniversary Sienna - no problems so far
2024 platinum Venza AWD - no problems so far
2025 corolla cross AWD - no problems so far

 

I understand the sentiment here, but it's not just the tech. All the tech in my pickup has nothing do with seat panels and volume knobs, or even cleaning debris from a freshly made engine part. It's understandable that the more features you add the more likely something is to break, but you can't let the things that have been around for decades get worse. I mean...forum members shouldn't need to design and 3D print better volume dials. I always cuss out our software vendors because it seems clear nobody there actually uses the product, and sometimes I feel those in charge of a vehicle have never driven it.

 

There seems to be less accountability at all levels within Toyota (and others) because of the aging out of XYZ.

It also doesn't help that Toyota offered "early retirement" (they used a different term on the paperwork) to folks in the midst of COVID and then didn't re-hire for said positions. 200+ in IT for example.

You may ask yourself, "How does this person know all of this?"

If you only knew the people.

 

Another old buck here, who disagrees with your take.

I have a 44 year old Jeep CJ with all those outdated features you described, except it's 4 on the floor. I've held onto it partly because my Father bought it new and it has sentimental value. The other reason I still own it is because it's one of the most simplistic vehicles ever made. I can diagnose any problem with it, and fix it, without any computer programs, special tools, ridiculously expensive parts, or reliance on sketchy service departments. I fully expect it will still be running long after my fancy new plastic Tundra, with all the bells and whistles, is sitting in a junk yard.

I'd have no problem going back to the days of those bulletproof, reliable, and simple vehicles.

 

Well this is my first Tundra after 2 perfect Ridgelines that neither one gave me any problems, and two Tacomas (2005, 2008) after the 2005 had a manual transmission failure and replacement under warranty but both of those great trucks after that, still have the 2005 Tacoma with 208,000 miles but the paint's gone, rusting, radio antenna snapped off, rough riding but otherwise still good for now. Had a 2004 Titan that was pretty good except it ate front disc rotors. I could go on with others too, GM and Ford, mostly good but what I've learned is this: If you want it to stay like new, just don't drive it, otherwise you have to expect some wear and tear.

 

Wow. Aside from installing the ECGS bushing myself, I’ve replaced nothing noisy or faulty on my ‘21.

 

Aside from software a lot of those things aren’t new. I’ve rented vehicles for trips that had lot of tech I didn’t like it.
They had fuel injected engines in the 1950’s.
Tucker,
Chevrolet, Rochester ramjet.
Mercedes,
Chrysler electrojector

it wouldn’t be that hard to have a lot of perks without all the software and electronics.

 

Right, but you didn't go back to those old days, this time you bought a modern, high end trim level Tundra, not a base truck which made my point. When it came down to it, you passed over the CJ's and work truck's simplicity and bought a luxury vehicle, and you can't say that just because of your wife or your need to carry a few sheets of plywood or drywall in back you had to have it. You could still be commuting in the 44 yr old CJ and perhaps you are, but you can't drive them both at the same time meaning the 1794 could be parked as a luxury item along with the boat or camper, the junk yard it's sitting in could be your own. When you trade or sell it, someone else will drive it until it's no longer economically feasible, same fate as with any other vehicle, and plenty of long running vehicles of every make and style, as long as they stay loved.

 

I think you're creating a false dichotomy here where one has to either choose the latest and greatest vehicle with a myriad of features, or must drive a truck with a small block Chevy with drum brakes all around, an ATRAC player, and no air conditioning.

There's quite a bit of options that "thread the needle" between those two and are simple enough to fix for most shade tree mechanics, have a reasonable amount of creature comforts and are actually more reliable than the trucks boomers bought in the 60s/70s.

 

Exactly. Instead of installing software that forces me to pay a subscription to unlock my doors and start my truck (not new tech, just greedy focus), let me use the key fob like always has been successful, practical, and convenient for everyone for 20 years. Maybe tackle the random* motor grenade instead.


*Assuredly not a design flaw.

 

Ticks all your boxes except you forgot 6V Positive ground electrics...



75 years old, original motor (one rebuild) and paint. Drove to church and ran errands on Sunday.

 

I bought a modern, high end plastic Tundra because I can afford to, not because I crave the techy bells and whistles. I've often said, if I could have found a brand new 2008 Tundra, like my first one, I would have bought it in a heartbeat. My 2015 Tundra was a good truck too, but the Gen 2.5 changes did nothing for me.

I just miss the days when hitting a deer barely left a mark on a pickup, instead of totaling it. I understand modern vehicles are suppose to be safer, but they've made them almost disposable in case of an accident. A large tumble weed blew a hole in my grille, for God's sake. Is that the kind of durability we have to accept for the sake of safety?

 

My $.02…I think what we are seeing with Toyota is happening with the auto industry as a whole.

1) emissions requirements are pushing the boundaries of ICE technology and design. Engines are getting smaller and higher stressed to extract as much efficiency as possible.

2) consumer demand favors high-tech, low-maintenance vehicles.

3) big, feature-rich vehicles are profitable to manufacturers.

4) manufacturers do not make money building cars that last forever. There is no incentive to design a vehicle to last forever other than reputation (something that Toyota built up in the 80s through 2000s)

5)Modern technology allows manufacturers to push the boundaries of manufacturing vehicles with lower safety factors in the design and predictable failure modes. Some people see this as a form of planned obsolescence.

In a nutshell manufacturers want to get consumers through the warranty period and a reasonable period beyond without devaluing their reputation… if “goodwill warranties” are an indicator of what is reasonable, it is 10 years and 120k miles.

Sometimes engineers get it wrong and you end up with oil burners from low-tension rings (Kia/Hyundai, Honda, Toyota), stretched timing chains (GM, et al), destroyed valve trains (GM AFM) and, yes, destroyed rotating assemblies… V35A and GM 6.2 LS. Pushing the boundaries of lubricant technology is probably a contributing factor, but that part of the overall engine design.

Toyota has had plenty of time to determine a root cause of the failures and rectify the problem. I’m under the impression they are not interested in doing that.

 

Who is this rational person?!?

 

I bought my 23 Tundra because I wanted all the bells and whistle's, I got tiered driving an old vehicle with none of those things. I like new stuff, so buying it is my prerogative and no one’s to question. My 08 was great but I sure like my 23 better. I’ll get my new motors at 90K plus and move on, I just dont care.

Someone mentioned software, software is built to become unsupported by nature, pull you into a solution then tell you 5 years later it isn’t supported and you have to upgrade…..making money all the time .

 

Agree with all points above. As to point 1), add occupant safety, pedestrian safety, hence we pay for cameras, radars and airbag intelligence, lane tracking, automatic braking and stuff you didn't ask for but pay for.

Replacing engines is not in their interest. Root causation surely is. I understand bad impressions and disappointments, but for those who saw a glass half empty and shopped elsewhere because of it opened a door for someone else to see a glass half full.

 

And Lucas 3-way headlamps, Off/Dim/Flicker

 

Speaking of, luv my Terra Hybrid... still like all Toyota trucks and nice to see all gens kept relevant.

 

Don't forget points and condensers. Egads.

 

This has been a very interesting thread for me, the new guy. This is the reason I'm in a 21. I've spent the last 43 years of my life rebuilding automatic transmissions. They have changed just like the rest of the vehicle. Currently Ram 6 speeds and GM 6 speeds are transmission gods gift to the repair world for me. I live in rural WV and 90% P/U's around here. The 10 speeds are now making it to the aftermarket now. Something 4x4. I drive a lot of different makes on a daily basis. Just turned 66 and closing my business in 3 years. Sold my building and have a 3 years lease on the part I use. So getting ready for retirement wanted my "forever" truck, I'm dead or they take my license. Wanted something made this decade. No way GM entered my thoughts. Don't like Rams. Ford 10 speeds and the CDF drum, plus they have valve body issues too. I've never worked on a Tundra. Not saying they don't break, can read about it on my transmission forum. Started doing my research and read about the current topic of discussion. Currently mine is not my daily driver and the mileage will stay low. Didn't want a problem down the road that's on my dime. Not saying they are all a POS waiting to explode. Found this well taken care of SR5 with 29,3k on the odo. It will meet all my needs.

 

Speak with your wallet. Don't buy their products. Voice your opinion. Look what Dodge fans were able to accomplish forcing Dodge to bring back the Hemi. Toyota fans should be doing the same damn thing.

 

This I agree with 100%. Which is why my next truck is probably going to be a 2500 series Gas truck. Although the reintroduction of the 5.7 Hemi in the 1500 has my attention I had one a decade ago with the Zf8 speed before my Tundra. Looking back I never really had any issues with it outside of one or two minor annoyances. That being said 2500 series Gas truck is the only trucks out there that I see being strong reliable etc. based on my research. The same can probably be said for the 3500 gassers too.

 

With the feature gloat on 1500s is taking their payloads down to laughable levels.

Seeing articles on 26 Ram 2500 Warlock gasser under $60k with impressive capability. Or go Cummins for low 70s sticker. If you haul or tow definitely the way to go if you can lift your own tailgate and turn on your own windshield wipers

 

Yeah I can do without many of these options I look for trims like Big horns on Rams, Custom/LT on GM, SR5 on Tundra etc. All I need is the towing equipment and other necessity stuff for things I use a truck for in that regard. I do select the box for lumbar seating but that is because of medical issues. Don't need someone to lift my tailgate and I am perfectly fine turning on my own wipers.

 

You haven’t heard of Google ?

 

Another update for those 2 or 3 that are actually here for the original post....

I didn't know until today that I have two separate cases open, with two different case managers. One for my "product concern" and one for my "parts concern". It transferred me to my parts concern rep, who advised me that while ETAs can definitely change, they expect a short block to be delivered to the dealer between 7/10 and 7/25 (seems like a very large window). She made a note for my "product concern" rep to call me, "probably tomorrow or the following day" to follow up with my issues regarding the vehicle itself and the service department working on the vehicle.

Also, as per the Toyota app, it stopped communicating with the vehicle Saturday mid-day, so I'm assuming they finally started tearing it down and disconnected the battery; so that takes the "move it to another dealership" possibility out of play (something that I had specifically been waiting to hear back from my product concern rep about).

I did find out that an old buddy's wife is a service writer at another local dealer, so assuming it actually gets fixed and not lemon law'd, I'll be taking it over there and letting her recommend a tech to inspect all the work this dealership did

 

thank you for the updates

 

Kinda weird terminology or system they use? How do they "deliver" a short block? Isn't a short block just new parts to replace damaged ones, once they have torn it apart and determined what needs to be replaced? How can they order parts before they have even torn it apart? Maybe that's your 15 day delivery window. Keep us posted, appreciate it.

 

Just like they deliver everything else. Once they receive it, they will bolt on all his ancillary components that aren't part of the short block and install it in the truck.