2 questions about the 3rd Gen

1. How is the stock Tundra in the snow? Stock tires. No lift. I have a 2022 TRD OR. I was hoping for some substantial snow here in the NE to test it out but that didn't really happen where I live. Going to Canada in Mar or April and don't want to be blindsided.

2. Rear locker engagement. The manual doesn't seem to be crystal clear on this although maybe I missed it. With my 3rd gen 4Runner, you had to be in 4LO. I did the same thing in the Tundra and it didn't engage really. Anything other than 4LO and it beeps. The manual says to turn side to side which did the trick. Should it just go in while sitting still? moving forward a few mph (which didn't make it engage) or move forward a few mph and turn side to side a bit (which finally worked)

 

Stock tires will be middling if there is much snow or ice. But that is the case regardless of the vehicle, you could have a Quattro Audi and the tires will be the weak link. Where in Canada are you headed, not all parts are equally snowy and especially in March or April.

I live in Calgary and have owned three Tundras now and have (briefly) driven two in the snow with the OE all seasons and it will suffice. But I always pony up for great winters (Viking Contact 7s at the moment) and the contrast in capability is beyond stark, hint: it's a fuckin tank with the Contis. In sum, you'll live if you use 4x4 when needed and take your time, but great winters will make you a rock star.

 

First year with my '22 Sport I threw 200# of sand in the rear over the axle and didnt have any problems in snowy MN. However, I know how to drive carefully and definitely wasnt the fastest person on the roads if there was any accumulation. Now I have Blizzak snow tires I rotate to in the winter. Feels much more planted and never worry about slipping. Still have 200# of sand I throw in the bed every winter though.

Cant answer the rear locker question, i dont have the off-road package. However, I would never use a locker unless I was in deep mud/sand. Used a locker plenty in the past, and rarely needed it. Especially not for snow unless I was in a ditch or straight-pulling someone out.

 

Yes, I would definitely upgrade the tires, either some Toyo open countries or Nitto Ridge Grapplers. The Hybrid is extra heavy and that extra weight really helps in the snow and ice. While the Toyo OC AT3s are meant for gravel mud they handle snow well at least until it fills the ridges then they tend to slip a bit. Overall the 3rd Gen Tundra handles snow really well with the right tires.

 

Careful with the ATs driving on highways with snow. They dont handle the same as true winter tires. They dont have the center channels that give side-to-side stability in snow or rain.
Just my 2c coming from a lifelong MN resident.
Blizzak vs KO3

 

All else equal, the best highway all season tires will generally outperform all terrain tires when pavement is covered with snow/ice.

 

2. Rear locker engagement. Best I could find to explain it. I'm not a mechanic but I'm guessing by turning side to side it allows one wheel to rotate more thus allowing the gears in the rear differential to engage.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/dns1yYI88Mk

 

I will take a shot at the second question (I can't help with the first as I don't have one). I don't know the engagement procedure as far as if you need to be in 4LO, BUT, it is possible to engage immediately when you are sitting still if everything happens to be correctly lined up. If it does not engage the gears in the differential are probably misaligned so you have to move, however, moving forward in a completely straight line will not move the differential alignment side to side. This is when you have to turn and get the rear wheels to move at different speeds and realign the internals in the diff. If you were offroad trying to engage the diff lock you are likely already spinning tires so they would be able to eventually realign even if you are traveling in a straight line

 

must be why I see all those all-season tires in ditches, the wife has an AWD CRV and I am not taking that out in slick ice snow covered roads.

The Tundra is a 4x4 frame on truck and with 4HI is going to do better than most passenger vehicles on the snow and ice regardless of tires. I can see how a dedicated snow tire would do better or even studs but the Toyos do well in snow covered roads. I wouldn't run them highway speeds but below 50 mph or so based on conditions they do fine.

and to answer OPs question you have to be in 4LO to get the axle disconnect to work properly.

 

Got 8" here a few days ago. SR5 OR on stock Michelin Trail tires handled it just fine. No need to use the locker or anything.

 

I found the stock tires for a Canadian winter were poor at best . I run at AT year around and can go anywhere I used to go on full dedicated winters, recognizing a dedicated winter will rule in the snow months of the year. Depends on amount you drive in the snow, or have to drive. If its that shitty out, I just dont go anymore

 

Do you usually stop in order to get close enough to inspect what type of tire was being used by the vehicle that is in the ditch?

Your wife's "AWD" CRV is a front biased "on-demand" AWD system that reacts to a loss of traction by sending more power to the rear wheels, correct? If so, it might a well just be a FWD vehicle. It's not one of those full time AWD systems in Audis, BMWs xDrives, Subarus, etc. with a near 50/50 split or some RWD bias.

All else equal, I would prefer a vehicle that has a lower center of gravity with an AWD system that has a near 50/50 power split as well as a near 50/50 weight balance. The only time I would prefer something else would be if the snow is deep enough that your vehicle would get high centered. Whether the vehicle has a monocoque frame or a body on frame chassis matters little in this regard.

In fact, one could make the argument that a 1/2 ton based SUV would generally perform better than a 1/2 ton based pickup as it has a more optimal weight distribution - closer to 50/50.

In any event, here are a few quantitative tests comparing a whole slew of all season, all weather, all terrain and mud terrain tires against each other in similar conditions.


Nokian line up of tires. Snow/winter tires > All Weather tires > AT tires > All Season* This one is an outlier because who buys an All Season Nokian Tyres One HT. I've never even heard of that Nokian tire and most people are going to generally opt for a Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 or the Continental TerrainContact HT.

https://youtu.be/nCiORPE-U0I?si=4DY9puIQnOgoHDiN



Comparison of On-Road AT and Off-Road AT tires against a Michelin X-Ice Snow SUV and Michelin Defender LTX M/S (version 1, not the updated version 2). The older Michelin Defender LTX M/S outperforms almost all the AT tires with the exception of an an On-Road AT. The older Michelin Defender LTX M/S also outperforms the Continental TerrainContact AT which is a direct competitor to the Michelin LTX AT2. The newer Michelin Defender LTX M/S2's changes are apparent in the tread pattern with more/longer siping for snow/ice conditions. Note that Michelin does not have a 3PMSF rating for both the older Defender LTX M/S and the newer Defender LTX M/S2, yet they still outpeform some 3PMSF all terrain tires.

https://youtu.be/tVSHMnkf0gY?si=8ky22qQ0FWGU85W9



Comparison on General Tire's lineup. Grabber Arctic (winter) > Grabber HTS 60 (3PMSF all season) > Grabber APT (3PMSF on-road AT) > Grabber A/T X (3PMSF off-road AT) > Grabber AT3 (3PMSF off-road AT)

https://youtu.be/jQAV5dm8e0Q?si=o3Ln5aOfonK5Knze

 

TLDR: other than I have a Subaru STI WRX and I wouldn't take it out on snow or ice either with its Michelin PS4s, the CRV is real time on demand AWD, since it is the top-of-the-line Hybrid model. it has a small electric motor powering the front and rear wheels at all times. It however has Michelin All season passenger car tires. Would not take it out on snow covered roads either with its current setup.

 

Michelin makes over a dozen different models of "all season" passenger tires grouped into the ultra high performance, grand touring, and standard touring categories: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/brands/michelin

They all have vast performance differences on snow/ice/slush, but the best Michelin all season for a passenger car/small SUV is the Pilot Sport All Season 4 by far. Does your CRV use this?


Here's an instrumented test comparing the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, CrossClimate 2, Pilot Sport All Season 4, and X-Ice Snow in the same conditions:
https://youtu.be/421HkK4Nqss?si=c1ExthHlBHY3IiXM

If you're using an all season other than the Pilot Sport All Season 4 or Defender LTX M/S2, I could understand why you would not want to be driving on those tires on snow covered roads.

Lap times:








As a side note, I really like driving reviews from Youtube channels like TheTopher, Tyre Reviews, Out Motorsports, Tedward, etc. where the driver has enough videos to demonstrate that he is actually a good driver. Most of these drivers are able to hold sustained high angle oversteer for an extended period of time so their car control abilities are credible. Their driving impressions are usually more specific and technical than the other Youtube reviewers that say very broad statements such as, "It rides smooth."

For the NCC BMWCCA club HPDE events, you usually need to demonstrate that you can maintain a high angle oversteer on the skidpad for at least 2-3 laps in order to be in the A and B run groups so that's why I can relate to some of the Youtube channels listed above.

 

the touring sport hybrid CRV comes with Michelin Primacy A/S so they probably wouldn't be that bad. The PS4s though are straight sport tires.

 

Oh I know, we use the following tires on our cars:

335i RWD:
Track: Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3
Summer, fall, spring: Michelin Pilot Sport 4S
Winter: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 (used to be Michelin X-Ice Xi3 until I ended up restoring the Subaru Legacy GT)

Subaru Legacy GT:
Summer, fall, spring: Continental ExtremeContactSport (not the F02 version yet)
Winter, fall, spring: Michelin CrossClimate2

X3 35i:
Summer, fall, spring: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4
Winter: Michelin X-Ice Xi3

With how good the all-weather tires like the CrossClimate2 and the Nokian Remedy WRG5 perform in winter conditions, we'll probably transition away from using winter tires. It seems like it's getting warmer year after year here in MD and the timeframe in which pure winter tires seems to be narrowing. There are a lot of downsides to winter tires when the temps increase over 50F.

 

I walk back all that stuff I said about the CRV, these intelligent AWD systems are the BOMB dot COM. Two electric motors running off a hybrid system that is right in the middle of the vehicle. In snow mode it felt more solid than my truck of course I did not run my truck in snow mode so that could be part of it. The Honda CRV AWD system feels solid and secure. Their AWD is good and feels as solid as a Subaru setup.

 

I'm going to North Bay, Ontario

I was only engaging the rear locker to give it a little workout. There's a 2 mile dirt road I go down about once a month, as an alternate on my way home from work, that I engage all the 4 wheel drive stuff.

This is what I was thinking as it does mention spinning tires in the manual. Makes sense that it would work like that.

Understood, it beeps at you if you try to engage it in anything else but 4LO



All GREAT information. Thank you so much. The tire information was fantastic coming from some "snow pro drivers" I've driven more than my fair share of snow, just not this truck. My Tacoma was lifted with Falkens and my 3rd gen 4Runner was lifted with KO2s and they gave me confidence in packed snow. Now more icey or super packed snow on the road, that was a different story but I never really drove this far, except ONE time in snow from Santa Fe NM to Boulder CO. in an 83 Toyota Supra (started in Phoenix) THAT was a friggin adventure. I was young and dumb then. No offense to the younger guys.

I will be towing a 12X6 Uhaul trailer back from North Bay. I'm sure my native Canadian son in law will have some pointers on driving but he used studded tires in the winter on his Chevy Cruz (POS) When he got an AWD with some Nokian Tires he said he felt confident enough that he didn't need the studded tires. He did move 2+ hours south from Teminskining (sp?) which I visited the first time I went to Canada, so maybe the snow isn't as bad in North Bay. I REALLY hope there is no snow or the roads are decently clear. Not really looking forward to this but I finally get my daughter back and my 4 YO granddaughter too so my excitement is overriding my apprehension a bit. Just gonna take it slow and steady.

 

I got Grabber Arctic LT with studs and they are great. I use 4x4 when its slippery. Have not yet had to use 4lo or locker yet but could see that being different in heavy thick snow on poorly plowed roads etc.

 

The Artic LT tires are not directional, correct? (If they are not directional, that would make it easier to rotate them and get better life out of them).

I would imagine using a locker is not preferred on snow/ice/slush over pavement/flat ground as long as you are using appropriate tires.

There are videos out there of Torsen based limited slip rear differentials working pretty well on snow. With appropriate tires, there's enough traction on either side for the Torsen based limited slip to work.

 

Keep in mind that the manual says not to use the locker at speeds over 5MPH.

 

They are not directional which is great