Chain Tensioner and Cam Tower Reseal... maybe

I inquired with a couple of dealers about having the timing chain tensioner replaced on my 5.7 tundra. Figured it was 90% of the way to the cam tower reseal, so I asked what it would take to do that as well.. One dealer hasn't responded after two or three phone calls, conversations and messages. The other dealer quoted me $11,000.00 to the job.

Yes, that's right. ELEVEN THOUSAND DOLLARS. Pulled the doom and gloom card 'If its rattling, your phasers are probably toast, too. Need to replace EVERYTHING' I laughed and told them a built short block with forged internals is HALF that much. and a complete NEW motor from Toyota is only a couple grand more (well, last time I check anyways).

So I made a bad decision and decided to order the tensioners and seals and such from a different dealer (three different dealers, actually) to do the job myself. Yup, I'm a glutton for punishment. But I like this truck and it's set up just how I like it, so I'm gonna make it run.

My chain only rattles a few minutes after a cold startup, when the engine is no longer cold, but isn't quite warm yet. It drives me bonkers. The same dealer to me know to worry about it last year when I asked about it, having heard the beginning stages of it on occasion. I've also seen plenty of other trucks put on 10's of thousands of miles with the same rattle until it rattles constantly. My truck isn' there yet, but things usually slow down for me a little bit after the holidays.

After perusing just about every thread I could find, then watching just about every video on the TubeOfYous, I'm fairly confident I can tackle the job. And, like I said, I'm 90% the way to the cam tower seals so I might as well do that, too. @ViktorG contributed a lot of information to a thread over on TundaTalk, as well creating a video of it. He recommends only replacing the driver side primary chain tensioner and leaving the other tensioners and chains alone. Since I'm pulling the phasers and cam plate to reseal the cam tower, I figure the other tensioners and chains are relatively cheap insurance, else I would most likely just replace the tensioner.

Parts are ordered. I sure hope they show up before Christmas.

I'll post the videos I'll be referencing below. Also, I have a few questions for the more experienced peanut gallery...

- Looking for ThreeBond 1207B, I found a some conflicting info. But the closest Toyota part number I could find is for Toyota Seal Packing 103 FIPG

$21 00295-00103 Formed-in-Place Oil Pan Gasket - 3 oz. Tube

00295-00103 . Best I could find, 103 is 1207B repackaged by Toyota. Am I wrong?

- I will have to clean off the the cam plate to cylinder head surfaces, as well as the block to front cover surfaces to reseal with 1207B. I've always used a few razor blades, brake cleaner, and red 3M scuff pads to clean up the surfaces. Any better ways to do that?

- Does the intake have to come off to do the job properly? This one comes with a caveat as my intake provides positive displacement for the whole motor, so it may or may not be relevant.

- Any other advice? or just don't mess it up...

 

Videos, as a reference...

Dans small engine 5.7 timing chain with part numbers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEwUC7cxGz8


Timing setup from scratch , Blair Witch filming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaDWBwmtVEE


Cam tower leak reseal without front cover removal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiO9ARX9Lts


Rain City Wrench Cam chain rattle fix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDgmsNWw0XQ


I Do Cars 5.7 Teardown on stand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_1zeSsoOK0


Sergei 5.7 timing chain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cOvWBaLSjQ

 

Parts list, not all of which I ordered or plan on using...

1 EACH - 13540-0S020 TENSIONER

1 EACH - 11213-0S010 CYLINDER GASKET

1 EACH - 11214-0S010 CYLINDER GASKET

8 EACH - 11193-70010 SPARK PLUG GASKETS

1 EACH - 90311-A0005 TYPE T OIL SEAL

2 EACH - 16341-38030 WATER OUTLET GASKET

1 EACH - 90301-A0032 ORING

1 EACH - 15193-0S010 OIL PUMP GASKET

4 EACH - 11159-0P010 CAMSHAFT GASKET

4 EACH - 11159-0S010 CAMSHAFT GASKET

2 EACH - 96721-24025 ORING **

1 EACH - 90301-A0033 ORING

4 EACH - 90430-A0001 GASKET **

THREEBOND 1207B - Toyota Seal Packing 103 FIPG 00295-00103


Chain tensioner slipper 13559-0S021

Chain tensioner slipper 13559-0S010



Chain vibration damper 13561-0S021

Chain vibration damper 13561-0S011


Chain sub assembly 1 13506-0S010

Chain sub assembly 2 13507-0P010


Timing chain sprocket inner 13521 38030

Timing chain sprocket outer 13522 38030


Intake Gasket 17171-0S030?

I think that's it, and correct. But if not, please correct me. The two gaskets with asterisks next to them don't show up as specific to my vehicle when running them through the dealer search function.

Toyota sealer info came from a post on a Toyota Motor Home thread, of all places:

"By the way, I am not bad-mouthing sealants sold by Toyota. Just making the point that there are common generic sealants not only just as good - some are exactly the same. Just not stuck in a Toyota box. Toyota FIPG 103 sealant is made by Three Bond and sold under the Three Bond 1207B part #. Permatex Ultra-Black RTV is pretty much exactly the same thing.

Like many car and tractor companies - Toyota reboxes a lot of stuff. As far as I know - here are some that Toyota has put their # on.

Toyota FIPG 103 - is actually Three Bond 1207B RTV silicone.

Toyota FIPG 102 - is actually Permatex Ultra-Grey RTV silicone

Toyota Seal-Packing FIPG - is actually Loctite # 5699 RTV silicone"

https://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?/topic/8786-best-sealant-for-toyota/

 

So I JUST finished this job on my 2013 4.6L (essentially the same as 5.7L). It was a bitch but I'm really glad I did it. Sometimes after I finish a job like this, I like to research what the dealerships/shops are charging just to justify my effort and that's how I found this thread.

Just yesterday I took her out for first long test drive and everything is running fantastic. For the record, I'm a self-taught DIY guy so this job might be easier/faster for someone with experience. I was also working in 20 deg F winter conditions for a lot of this, which doesn't help either.

Although there were parts of the job where I definitely questioned my decision to take this on, I think the part that pissed me off the most was the lack of information from Toyota on the part numbers for gaskets/seals, so hopefully I can help out there. Half the gaskets in my Felpro valve cover gasket kit were wrong and Toyota was not much help in identifying what was needed. The local dealership parts guy tried to help, but at the end of the day it was forums like this that saved me. Why doesn't Toyota have a pre-assembled kit with part numbers for all the gaskets needed for valve covers, timing covers, etc?!

I used the YouTube videos referenced above, the best being Dan's Small Engine and the last video of the Russian guy changing the timing chain. But both of those guys skip steps, and I had to find other resources to fill-in-the-blanks. The cam tower reseal video was also helpful but could have been a lot better if he slowed down and explained a few things instead of playing horrible music over the video.

I also recommend a 2-part video from Timmy the Toolman, but he only does valve cover gaskets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASOIvxWogWI&t=2476s

I did not film my work but I did take some pictures along the way that may be helpful. I'll post them on here somewhere (where ever the appropriate place is) and I'll let you know...

 

Thanks for the feedback. I expect it will be some work but looks feasible. Luckily for me, my shop has a heat pump and stays around 50F without a heater. I’ve played that work outside in the freezing cold game before; good on you for talking the job in the weather. I know how much more difficult that makes it.

Funny thing - the other dealership I reached out to just called me me back this morning but didn’t leave a message. I expect another outrageous quote.

 

I would recommend pulling the intake manifold and resealing the heat exchanger while you are at it.

 

Depending on mileage, I think I would pull the the engine out. Replace starter, water pump, valley plate, sec. air pump delete, valve spring upgrade, rear main seal, timing tensioners, chains, plugs, clean throttle body, replace thermostat, and maybe even clean out the ring grooves. Basically be GTG for another long spell before I needed to get serious again. Just my .02 though! Good luck!

 

Thought about it. But if going to do that, I’m getting a the bottom end built. Snowballs really quick… haha.

 

My chain cackles quite a bit. I’m hoping I can make it another 4-6mo and save up funds for a supercharger. If I’m that deep into the engine, might as well knock that install out at the same time. There’s your 11k right there. Take a week off from work and enjoy myself/take my time.

Have a feeling the Insider ratchet will prove pretty valuable with this install..

 

Yep, always an excuse reason to buy a new tool

But, ya, that's 11 grand and 11 grand well spent! I loved driving my truck when it was stock... with the SC it's ridiculously fun. As noted above, I spoke with a few dealerships when the chain noise was more intermittent and they all told me to just run it. It's only when I pushed it that they insinuated that my motor will die an ignominious death.



All of my parts have shown up already EXCEPT the chain tensioners, which I ordered from Fred Anderson. You know the part that actually needs to replaced...

 

Got started on this last night. My Whipple showed up last week and I need to get the truck back on the road at some point. After pulling the blower and sending it in a few months back, I figured it was a good reason to start the job. I’ve decided to forgo the cam tower reseal; it’s barely a weep so not worth the extra work once I’m in there, IMO. I might be eating crow for that, but if I need to tear it down that far I think I might as well pull the whole motor and give it some forged goodies.

Anyways, I just need to pull the AC compressor studs, the oil filter housing and cooler, and it should be ready to pull valve covers and front cover.

This morning while I was reviewing @ViktorG tear down video, I realized that didn’t order the gasket for the chain tension itself - just all the other gaskets (hopefully). So I’ll prolly wait to pull it apart until they show up. Should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

Had to sneak a peak under the valve cover. 230k miles. Ish.





And a peak at the offending tensioner, looking down through the front of the valve cover. You can see where it is worn from oscillating.

 

That engine looks really clean. It's either low mileage or you have been good about the oil changes.

How bad was it to get it torn down to that point?

 

I marvel at what you guys are capable knocking out on this truck. I think I'm all bad when service my transmission and engine coolant.

 

You aren't kidding. There's some mechanics on this site.

Ha, I'm due for both coolant and tranny fluid and I'm timid to try either. These newer vehicles aren't easy... I don't think they are.

 

I've got 230k miles on the truck. I'm the original owner and it's the original motor that has never had any extra work done to it besides maintenance and a water pump when I had the supercharger installed as a 'while you're in there' item. OCI was 6-7k miles until the supercharge was installed January of last year at 200k miles, then 4-5k miles.

Tearing it down to this point isn't horrible, but time consuming. I think I'm about 8 hours in to it, including pulling the blower originally. The hardest parts were probably getting the coolant crossover spaghetti nest figured out (you have to undo a few bolts here, a few bolts there, look, back to the first part..) and getting the wire loom clips to release on top of the valve covers. I'm sure there's a special tool for that, but that tool does not reside in my toolbox. In its place, there's a pick and a big flat blade screwdriver.

Thanks. Good vehicle maintenance is what I've been striving for since day one on this truck. I've relied on the vehicle to get me safely to my destination every day, and safely home every night for 12 years, so maintenance has been paramount. It was dealer maintained until it's first bigger service interval at 30k miles (diffs, t case) and they wanted to charge me $800 on top of my pre-paid maintenance that was supposed to include ALL maintenance up to 60k miles. I threw a bit of a stink about it, calmly citing the manual, and was promptly black-listed by the service manager since he made himself look like a second-handed-electric-donkey-bottom-biter in front of the service staff when he threw a hissy fit. Since then, I've maintained it by myself in the driveway or garage.

I see motors like this with 280k on them, and I was really worried about what I'd find under the valve covers on mine. Well, kinda worried...

Haha. This is about the limit of my capabilities. I'm wimping out on the cam tower reseal simply because I don't want to deal with timing the motor. From past experience, I've learned that timing an engine is best done on a stand, not in the vehicle. I had a 1.8T VW that took about five tries to get right (actually, it was correct the first time, third time, and fifth time, but had a bad sensor that kept throwing me off). Judging by how clean the internals are, I'm not too worried about replacing timing chains and cam phasers. I have new chains but will most likely not touch them.

And honestly, I most likely wouldn't try to do this job by myself if I didn't have resources like the videos above, including @ViktorG's video to walk me through it. I just need to do my part with o rings and gaskets and sealer.

One thing I love about these trucks is that they were built for maintenance. If you can change the oil in it, you can do the coolant and transmission. I think they are actually easier than the oil change. Just get tubing for the draincock nipple on the bottom of the radiator and you won't make a mess, and some more tubing to string up in to the engine bay with a funnel on the end to fill the transmission. The rest is cake. You got this. Haha.

 

@blenton

just out of curiosity, how much additional work would it be to remove the radiator and A/C condenser to gain working space? Would it be worth the effort? I’ve never had to actually fix anything in the engine on any my of Toyotas aside from routine maintenance.

My Saturn Outlook (GMC Acadia) was another story. When I worked on the transmission to repair the TEHCM and replace wave plates, I pulled the front clip, radiator and condenser (was relatively quick and easy), I found I had a lot of room to access other PITA components that need to be replaced, versus fighting for clearance.

 

I thought about going that route, but don’t have a refrigerant recovery machine and would hate to recharge the system. As I understand it, refrigerant standards have changed - again - and the original charge refrigerant is NLA, meaning it would need to be converted (really just change all of the refrigerant). I spoke with an HVAC guy the other day and he informed me that refrigerant is currently ridiculously difficult and expensive to obtain. So I’d rather not go that route if I don’t have to. I also have the SC intercooler to contend with In front of the condenser.

Else, removing the front end would be a viable strategy to getting better access to the components. If I decided to do the timing chains and cam tower, that would be a better way, IMO, except for maybe just pulling the motor. That might be the quickest way, but require a few more parts and tools, and with my luck, produce exhaust leaks or break exhaust bolts.

I did pull the radiator to give more room. There was enough room to get my M18 mid-torque gun on the crank pulley bolt to make removal easy. The rad could use a good cleaning, too, so I planned on pulling it (all of four extra bolts). I placed cardboard in front of the condenser to hopefully avoid any damage.

 

Hmmm... Maybe I don't need to pull all of the timing chains and phasers off the motor in order to reseal the cam tower. Might need to rethink that. This guy doesn't even pull the front cover off the motor, or any of the accessories off.

 

That is a time saver not taking it all apart.

 

Awesome thread. I'm expecting to have to do this some day.

Carbide tip gasket scrapers work awesome, as do plastic razor blades and plastic chisels

 

Here is where I ended up Monday night.




Front cover has a little more varnish on it than the valve covers, but not too bad for the miles. We'll see how easily it cleans up.




A note on prying off the front cover: on all the videos and write-ups I've seen, the front cover has been a bear to break free. Expecting a bit of battle, I gently fought it for about 5 minutes prying the corner of the passenger's side head right by the coolant passage. The passengers side popped free without too much hassle, but didn't move a lot. I could see the large coolant pipe in the middle of the valley moving, so I knew the o-ring wasn't 100% stuck as has been noted on other write-ups. After getting nowhere for a few minutes, I checked to make sure I had removed all the bolts and found one that I had missed - in the center of the driver's side head. The same bolt doesn't exist on the passengers side, at it is obscured by a bracket when looking from the radiator. Had to find it by braille. Once that bolt was removed, the cover was much easier to remove... So check to make sure you have removed ALL of the bolts! I swear every video and writeup had the same issue, so I don't feel TOO boneheaded.




A second note on completely freeing the cover: since you have much better access to the top of the motor, it is tempting to wedge a pry bar by the coolant crossovers on both sides of the cover and just give it the beans. Don't do that. While these two locations work great to initially free the the cover, it ends up wedging the seal at the crankshaft making your prying futile and potentially hazardous to the life of the cover. I found that once the seal is broken, pulling from the bottom sides of the 'Y' allowed for the main coolant o ring and crank seal to disengage without much fuss, with only a little extra persuasion at the coolant o-ring pipe at the very end.




Aside from standard mechanics tools, I found I needed to purchase some E-Torx sockets. An E8 socket was needed to remove the two A/C compressor studs from the side of the front cover to allow you to set the A/C compressor to the side.




The parts list that I gathered from a few other threads appears to be missing a gasket for the driver's side tensioner. I was able to order it through the local dealership and get it in two business days. I decided to grab a water pump gasket while I was there; the water pump was replaced last year.




Now to clean up gasket surfaces and decide if I want to tackle the cam tower reseal...

 

*Selfishly states*: do the cam towers.

I've got to do mine one day and was going to replace the tensioners since being in there. Really don't mind you blazing the trail while compiling notes and P/Ns.

Planning to gut the SAIS?

 

Nice find