Y pipe vs dual inlet muffler?

It’s not even like that. My job is literally to help guys with their trucks. I’ll stay afloat either way.

Ive seen thousands of incorrect tundra exhaust systems over 20 years of being in this community. The fact that I’m not afraid to tell somebody when their exhaust is wrong isn’t a fault. It’s a strength.

In today’s crybaby world everybody is afraid to speak their mind for fear of exactly what this Blanton fellow has been accusing me of the last 3-4 times he has trolled my posts. I’ve seen this guy accuse me of ‘fear mongering’ when in fact I’m stating facts.

Facts which I’ve seen literally thousands of times happen to guys. Warning guys that a tundra is different from what they’re used to and trying to prevent a guy from making a mistake is a service to the community.

Posting my phone number and offering help is also a service to the community.

@blenton im not trying to sell you anything. Have a great morning.

 

Full disclaimer, i have used Keith’s product in the past and will one day again so i do believe in it.

It only seems logical that if dual exhaust, h, x or moving the y pipe before mufflers were better keith would have done it as he probably dyno’d multiple setups before arriving at the final design.

 

I will say, I noticed just this week a deviation from the tundra exhaust gospel. I had a TRD dual system which is true dual and allegedly reduces torque and many say “drones” as well. I replaced it with a TRD replacement system with an X pipe and dual resonators, and I ran that system for a couple of months. I had noticed a reduction in torque and also noticed a drone around 1300-1600rpm, approximately. I just reinstalled the OEM TRD catback and it is like somebody flipped a switch on the low end, and I suddenly see how much torque I gave up running the X pipe. It is glaringly obvious, as is the now lack of drone. There is no telling me otherwise either. Maybe my case is somehow special, but those were my observations I can make with certainty.

 

I don't troll posts. I read, learn, and contribute to threads that I am interested in, some of which happen to be exhaust related. Even still, the majority of my time on the forum is spent in other areas. It so happens that you also read and post on the same exhaust threads. Am I not allowed to read the same threads as you? Am I also not allowed to have a different opinion than you? Even here in this thread, your response to me has been to attempt to berate my character and insulate that I am a crybaby and a troll because I don't fall in line with the fan club. Schoolyard tactics... Yawn.

I have no vendetta against you or your product. There is no deep seeded disdain or jealousy or whatever cockamamy derogatory term you can derive. But you purport "facts" but offer no explanation other than "I've done it all". You have certainly done a lot in the way of tuning exhausts, but unless you have tested EVERY product available in EVERY configuration possible, you certainly haven't done it all. If we minimized exhaust parameters and said there were only 20 different options, that would amount to 400 different permutations with that muffler alone. Consider the number of mufflers available and it's absurd to assert you know everything because you've tested everything. I have no issue with you being confident in the product you've built, but if it's so good, why do you have to downplay and insult every other system out there (including those that are satisfied with those systems..)?

We are simply tired of every exhaust thread turning into a "Call me! Buy my exhaust! You made a mistake NOT going with my setup! You're losing power! I like to pee in cheerios!". Your name and contact info are listed in the Vendor section; folks can find you and get in touch with you easily without you plastering it all over every single exhaust thread.

 

Better and best are comparative terms. What is better or best of one user is not necessarily better or best for another. Any system design - including Keith's exhaust - has a set of parameters for which the system is optimized. It also means that every system is a compromise to achieve the goals of meeting those design parameters.

For example:

- compare the overall system response for differing exhaust manifolds: longtubes vs tri-y vs log vs zoomies. All have their strengths and weaknesses. Longtubes push the exhaust union further down the exhaust stream, creating better scavenging a lower RPM when the exhaust pules are further apart. More torque, less top end. Zoomies have no scavenging and lose low end but have unencumbered top end. Tri-y are a compromise: two small exhaust pulses at two different times/places in the exhaust stream. Good low end torque, good top end, but not the best of either. Toyota chose Tri-y.

- fuel economy vs power. Raw cubic inches vs forced induction.

- Propeller pitch on a boat or plane: aggressive pitch makes great low end power but lower top speed; less aggressive pitch makes less go down low, but higher top speed.

- tires... wow, there are a lot of compromises made in the tire world, but simply compare tread compound vs strength vs traction vs fuel efficiency vs weight vs noise vs comfort... all are tradeoffs, all are design optimizations, none are the best at everything, but some are better for many things. I would never run a drag slick in the winter, nor would I put super swampers on a drag car.

There are countless other examples, but the point I'm making is that the terms "better" and "best" are open for interpretation. If "facts" are based on "better" and "best" then those facts are also open for interpretation and aren't actually facts, but rather opinions or suppositions.

 

My logic here is, yes, for most customers what is best, as in most users have stock manifolds and midpipes etc.

However, if his design adds say 10hp, using round numbers. If the dyno showed a 15hp gain with a different exhaust design, wouldn’t he be more successful selling that other design?

 

I don't disagree with the logic. But where it adds that HP and what compromises are made to gain it are just as important as the overall number. Does adding the additional 5 HP cost you a 3db sound penalty (I'm sure you understand how SPL is measured, but for general reference, 3db is doubling the sound output)? Or does it add cost and/or complexity to the system? Is that 5 HP across the board, or a 5 HP bump at 5900 RPM with an accompanying 20 HP decrease everywhere else? It's all about compromises and goals.

When I had my truck tuned on the dyno, I was after great low-end torque and power under the curve made in a reliable fashion. Top-end power was less of a concern for me since I spend much more time below 4k rpm than above it. We could have tuned for big power and chased a number for bragging rights but I had other priorities. It turned out as desired and pulls my trailers ridiculously well.

I'm not trying to say DirtyDirts makes a bad product or that he didn't put any thought in to it. But just like tires, one size doesn't fit all. My truck (along with many others here) is not stock, or even TRD supercharger stock, so we search for other solutions. Stifling conversation that goes against the status quo is counterproductive. My opinion.

 

I’m not reading all of that. I’ll post on exhaust threads. That’s my job. It was before your troll posts started and it’ll still be my job when you’ve lost interest. Knock it off. Have a great night.

 

Aaaaand... we're back to name calling...