700 LB Springs on King 2.5 for Double Cab

Hello All,
I'm getting rid of my N3's. There's lots of options of course, but leaning towards Kings or Icons. Both have the option of a 700 LB spring. I'm wondering if anyone has some experience with using the 700 LB springs on either setup with a Double Cab. I don't have additional weight in the front currently, but in reading other places the 700 LB springs have been suggested on the DC Tundra. Would love any thoughts. Thanks

 

Have ran my Kings with both 650lb springs and 700lb springs. I'd go for the 700lb springs from the start. You'll need less preload on them to get the ride height you want with 700lb springs, and once you add extra weight to the front, you'll have to add less preload than you would with 650lbs to get back to your original height.

Kings and Icons ride differently due to their internal valving. Kings are valved linearly, while Icons are valved digressively. This article will go over the differences between the two https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/digressive-vs-linear-vs-progressive-pistons-shock-valving/

Icons are also viewed negatively by some because they tend to leak prematurely.

 

@805Tundra can give direct experience with the same Toytecs I have, on a DC, with 700# springs. He'd be the guy I'd want to pick brains for info. For my A truck, I feel like they ride too damn stiff over quick hits, like potholes and speedbumps, so not ideal for me, in my AC, where 75% of my driving is on-road these days.

 

Thanks guys. I will pass on the Icons. I have one other option I'm considering. The reason for it is that 70% of my driving is on road, and off road I see mostly mountain/wasboard driving. I have also had good experience with 5100's on an FJ. I can buy Dobinson C59-314 springs, or the King 700 pound springs and mount them on 5100's. This is less expensive, but the Kings might be overkill for my current driving. The N3's are rough and have settled quickly. If I go the 5100 route I can save some money for other things. Saving money is not my primary motivation, but it might let me address a couple other things. For context I have the Freedom Offroad UPC's on the front, air bags and Torch add-a-leaf in the rear with 5100's. The rear is lifted right at 1", and while I'm ok with a little rake my current set up is closer to 1.5" on the driver side front and 2" on the passenger side. I know, spend once, cry once, so if Kings are just that much better suited for me, that's the way I'll go. Also, I have extended travel CV's and extended sway Bae links I will put on when I do the struts. I already did lower control arms, power steering rack, OEM lower ball joints and basically everything else lol. Leaf spring bushings may need to be done soon.

 

Looks like Kings won't go on Billstein, so it would be the Dobinsons if I did it that way.

 

This, with a 1/4" spacer is what I'm thinking:
https://www.1stgenoffroad.com/store/p588/DobinsonsBilsteinFrontTundra.html#/

It would be half the price of the Kings as I can assemble them.

 

You're talking about just the springs themselves? The springs for King/Icon are 3.0" inner diameter and are meant for 2.5" shock body that is fully adjustable. They definitely won't fit. Bilstein 5100 are a 1.81" shock diameter that uses a stock design 2" inner diameter spring.

Also, can I ask why you're trying to lift your truck? Looks?

If you're going to add a spacer to the top of your shocks, you need to add an 1/2" spacer on all four front bump stops to prevent damaging your shock.

 

OEM spring rates are fine if you're not adding weight or changing anything other than shocks.
5100's are pretty crappy and to me they're ok if you're planning on changing them later or need new shocks to sell the truck, they're barely a notch above the OEM option and usually stiffer (2 tacos and 1 tundra give me enough experience). I'd describe 5100 as OEM shocks with preload adjustment.

6112/5160 combo seems to be the best bang for the $ according to lots of guys here on both 1st and 2nd gen, they come with new springs too. A little research on them around here will do some good.
Only perk missing is fine tunning/rebuildability.

 

As I posted previously, I already have Rough Country 2.5" lift struts on the truck. I also am running wheels and tires that necessitate a lift, but that is not the primary reason for a lift. The areas I do travel to when I go hunting require a little more clearance. The 6112's will not provide enough lift. I was interested in them, but didn't like the idea of using a large spacer. I will be installing new bump stops as well to answer another thought above. Bottom line is that I don't think the $300 savings of going Dobinson IMS with OME springs was enough to not get the Kings. However, $700 in savings might make the 5100's with Dobinson coils worth it.

 

2.5" means two completely different things for the Kings and Icons than it does the Rough Countrys. The 2.5" in your Rough Country shocks refers to how much lift you get from the shock and spring combination. The 2.5" in King/Icon terms refers to ONLY how big the shock body is. King/Icon shock/spring combinations are fully adjustable and can have 0-3" lift.

The King and Icon springs/shocks are much much bigger than your Rough Country Shocks, OEM shocks, or Bilstein 5100s. Bilstein 6112 shock/springs are bigger than your Rough Countrys etc, but not as big as King/Icons.

As for travel numbers:

Lift does not affect available travel unless you add a spacer on top of an assembled coilover/shock or go over three inches of lift. Adding a spacer on top of assembled coilover/shocks only reduces your usable travel. The more you lift the truck, the more that changes the ratio of up versus down travel. The closer you get to 3" of lift, the less amount of down-travel (droop) you have available.

Your Rough Country N3 shock has about 4.05" of travel. Your overall assembled coilover/shock length is fixed with these, and you should not put a spacer on top of them.
A Bilstein 5100 shock has 5.12" of travel. Your overall assembled coilover/shock length shock not extend more than ~16.05" at ride height with these
A Bilstein 6112 shock has 5.87" of travel. Your overall assembled coilover/shock length shock not extend more than ~17" at ride height with these.

Lastly, lift height does not allow you to clear tires that you would not have been able to fit with stock shocks. The only way they help you "clear tires" is at ride height strictly with pavement use. A tire on a lifted IFS truck (no spacer on top of coilover/shock) can still compress all the way and rub on all the same spaces. The frequency of how often a bigger tire will rub may not be as often if you're set to 3" of lift, but they'll still rub. My Kings are set to ~1" of lift. If I set my coilovers to 3" of lift, my 33" tires will still rub in the same exact spots all day.

Regards to clearance and a standard coilover lift... It may help with your initial approach angle, but your ground clearance will still be the exact same. The shocks will still compress the full amount and your frame will bottom out in the same places. Your frame may hit less frequently with a full 3" of lift, but you don't gain any final ground clearance numbers.

 

Thanks for all the information. I appreciate it. I am well aware of the difference between the 2.5" Roughcountry being a lift height and the 2.5" on the Kings being the size, but being a math nerd I loved the whole post! It actually makes a lot of sense, and it helps me think through things. I do not want 3" of lift. I am comfortable riding in, and getting in and out of the 2.5" lift height. I prefer the ride height. I initially only did the lift because the whole suspension was rusted and seized due to lack of use by the previous owner. I bought what I could afford at the time. Now I am looking to make it better. I have fallen in love with the truck, and I work hard to maintain it. Finally, yes, I like the look of it at 2.5", so I want to get the set-up that can best handle that ride height and give me the best overall ride. I'm investing in the truck instead of getting something else. It gets the kids and I to all the mountains we want to hike and our tent trailer to all the places we want to camp. And let's be honest, these things drive great, right??? It was a pain to get it back on the road (UBJ, am I right???), but now I don't want anything else.

 

The truck has about 138,000 miles right now, so I'm pretty sure there's lots of life left

 

Here's a thought. Can I put a different spring on the 6112? I can buy the 6112 kit for less than $600. If I added Dobinson or OME springs which are rated to give 2.5" of lift on the bottom clip of the 5100's would it work? Based on the numbers des posted it would seem the 6112 is capable of doing more than the 5100 in terms of travel an lift even though the description says it's less than 2" max with the factory kit?????

 

Gotcha, I'm happy to help. Be aware the advertised 2.5" lift of the Rough Country or any other shock is still an estimate, you will get less if you've got a bumper/winch, sliders, or aftermarket skidplates.

Bilstein 6112 will have six different ride height perches and the Bilstein 5100 will have four. With the 5100s, what your final lift ends up being, depends on which springs you go with.

I'll again repeat what I said about looking into shock valving differences between brands. Bilstein shocks are valved digressively and they can ride pretty crappy off pavement. I regularly drive my truck in very rugged terrain and tried Bilstein 5100s before -- I hated them and took them off right away.

No go, at least depending on what springs you get. The 6112 has a thicker shock body than the 5100s and uses bigger springs. The inner diameter of the 6112 springs is larger than the Dobinson/OME springs. In the case of the 6112s, you can swap them out for the 3" inner diameter springs that fit Kings/ Icons, but you need to be weary of the spring rate and length.

Bilstein 6112s come with a 650lb spring that is 15.6" in length. King/Fox/Icon/Eibach springs come in many lengths and spring rates, but for a 6112 the closest is a 16" length. A Bilstein 6112 with a King/Icon etc 3.0"x16"x700lb spring will not require as much preload to get the desired ride height as a Bilstein 6112 with the supplied spring.

 

Thank you all. I'm weighing all my options and trying to be honest with myself about my truck usage. I also live to tinker with things lol, so building a strut with 6112's and King springs just sounds like a fun experiment. Kings are the way to go I think, but I just have to swallow the cost

 

Kings and Fox are the best but you gotta pay to play. Either get them from a reputable shop like AccuTune that can tune them before shipping or a local shop that can actually work on these for tune and repair.

 

Hello,
Took a good look at myself and I realize that I don't do enough off-roading to justify the Kings at this point. I am leaning towards building the 6112's with a 16"-700LB spring. I can get the 6112's, the tophats, and the springs for about the same as putting together some 5100's. I have two questions. 1. Which spring should I use? I can find both the Eibach and the Kings. I know Icon has some as well, but I haven't found them. 2. If I want a 2.5" lift for the front which clip should I use? I figure this can only come from experience, so I am hoping someone on here has added 700lb coils to some 6112's. I think the 700lb coil adds about 16% if my research is correct, but that could be bogus. In the end I like the challenge of doing it myself, and for me, as long as I leave the engine alone, this truck is a great way to work with my hands and try new things. That being said, I have not desire to wreck it!!!!!

 

The 6112s come with springs...

 

Yes. They come with 650 lb springs. The 700 lb would allow me to get more lift and a lower clip setting. The 16" spring is also slightly longer by about .5". My thought is reducing preload without maxing out the strut. Sounds good theoretically? Others have done it, so hopefully there are some real life experiences on here.