Tundras live: Dumb Dad Jokes, Incorrect Opinions, and Relationship Advice.

Man, I'd think that would produce some serious training scars for inexperienced individuals

IE>> Draw, present, and now hunt for a red dot (that pattern of presentation would become consisent pretty quick and net a slower time to put rounds on target)... It's similar to some of the training scars that are developed through poor presentation w/a traditional red dot/RMR.

If you end up w/something like that or even a more traditional RMR sight, just keep this in mind...

Draw, present and as you're punching the weapon out bring everything into alignment the first time; if this happens feel free to follow through w/the rest of the steps...

If you don't have sight alignment as you punch out, immediately retract (don't 'hunt' for the red dot) back to the point where your arms are tucked in w/the weapon near your chest (the position where you are normally building your 2 hand grip) and repeat the punch out... remember to punch straight out and into your natural 'line of sight' in lieu of punching out w/your line of sight over the top of the weapon and then sweeping it up to your eyes or dipping your head down closer to your arms to acquire a proper sight alignment.

This is really no different than proper training w/fixed sights as well, but the red dots and RMRs make it easier to shoot accurately for folks so many don't put the work in to learn how to properly 'run the gun' and end up w/slower presenations or inaccurate shots when stress is induced

 

I'm all for innovation but that doesn't seem safe. I could see losing a second or two trying to find your target with this tech..

 

What do the new ones going in look like?

 

You’re definitely putting it in perspective for me, TC. Thank you.


I’ve got a lot of training ahead of me and I’m just gonna go with basic iron sights. Stick with my plan to match the ergonomics of the 9mm with the SIG 22 I already purchased. Maybe it’s not the P365 though.

Along the way I’d like to try a Glock, I read some of what you said in the other forums and you have some impressive credentials.

 

SAS = Sig Anti Snag

All the edges that can snag on the draw are removed/reduced.

 

Sounds like it’s for deep-concealment, close-quarters shooting and not very practical other than anti snag

 

Not if it's what you train. I wouldn't mix and match it with irons or red dots (this is not a red dot, just tritium), but I wouldn't mix and match irons and red dots either.

Glocks have a different grip angle that makes you present a little different. If you train Sig and then pic up a Glock, or vice versa, your presentation will be a little off. That's part of why blocks are polarizing. If you want a Glock without the odd angle, better trigger, and a nicer price you should check out a CZ.

 

That’s good to know, I knew about the Glock angle but I didn’t know that CZ is similar to Glock mechanically, but without the angle.

 

Yup. Similar bore axis, and very solid. Basically it's a Glock with mods.

 

Maybe I should just join the National Guard. That would be some free training, if I don’t have a heart attack. My wife would freak out. Good lord it would be like Stripes 2025. I’d better get some sleep.

 

5$onit

 

Not sure the 'guard' is a good place to be given some of the directional flow of our country; at some point those folks are going to be forced into making some tough decisions (following orders vs. doing what's right depending on one's view).... not saying that's an immenent absolute scenario, but potential is there any time emergency declarations are made.

 

Same. If I'm pulling out a pistol it's likely I don't have time to f around with dots. I'm old though so I'm not a fan of tech when I can just line some open sights up.

 

$5 as well. That's $10 to you @j-utah.


And to reiterate @Tripleconpanna's point, don't join the guard for any training unless you want to learn how to be loaf. Little bias here, but they ain't teaching you anything you couldn't learn from a local handgun course at best.

 

Thanks... not sure about all that, but I try to help when/where I can

If you're enjoying shooting a Sig, chances are you won't prefer shooting the Glock over the Sig; definitley two different beasts... Fairly easy to become highly proficient and comfortable w/either platform, especially if you're 'green' and can learn properly the first time rather than creating a bunch of training scars and then trying to work out the kinks as they present themselves once you move to more advanced shooting methods, techniques and environments. Definitely a good idea when you're first learning to try and stick w/a particular platform than bouncing back and forth between systems.

I ran a Sig P226 for a few years (unit requirement that we all ran the same pistol for mag compatibilty between everyone in the unit). Fortunately, that 'policy' was removed after a brief period and we were allowed to carry what worked best for us w/in reason. It was a very nice pistol and short of it not liking some of our training rounds it was pretty damn reliable. Personally, I didn't like how it was weighted, and I hated the double/single operation of the trigger. For me, I'd prefer for the trigger to feel consistent w/each press.

I know a lot of folks don't care for the contour and shape of the Glock pistol, but the newer generations have made some improvements to that and they are a bit more user friendly for those looking for a slight beaver tail and some contour where the webbing of your strong hand makes contact w/the grip. The other issue that you'll hear a lot about is how Glocks don't 'present' well; this is a misnomer and is caused by poor shooting mechanics. Many folks operate a pistol w/the belief that the strong hand (right hand for a right handed shooter) is responsible for 70-80% of the 'grip strength' used to control the pistol, recoil, and desired lateral movement of the weapon; and if you present w/your off hand doing only 20-30% of the work, yes you'll find that there is a propensity to 'cant' the weapon to the left slightly. This isn't caused by the pistol, it's caused by the mechanics of the human body. These mechanics are the reasons folks are taught to intentionally cant their pistol when shooting one handed (because it allows the arm to remain more stable throughout the process).

But once you build a proper 2-handed grip, it's your non-dominant hand that should be handling about 60-65% of the stabilization, presentation and guiding of the weapon. A lot of folks try to squeeze the grip of the gun w/their strong hand (bottom 3 fingers). This technique has you trying to control the entire pistol w/3 fingers at the mid-range point of the grip (not real efficient in terms of leverage)....

The more efficient way to control the weapon is to have you hand(s) control the pistol where there is more weight (high on the gun) and to do so by 'vicing' the gun, which is done by applying an inverted V shaped pressure high on the pistol... In other orders if your hands are placed in a verticle position near each other and you roll them inward to where the pads on the index fingers (at the palms) make contact and develop pressure; you'll want your off-hand slightly higher than your strong hand (maybe about 1/2-3/4") , while the pinky end of your palms start to wander apart slightly... (this is how to begin vicing properly).

If you do this in the air (empty handed) at chest height and have your hands drawn into your chest, what happens to your elbows??? They extend outward; you should also feel tension in your traps... now while maintaining that position and pressure, push your hands from your chest forward and in line w/your eyes (head up and body square to your target). Now don't lock out completely, just press forward until the shoulders feel slight discomfort or tension and then back off slightly... this is approximately the ideal position for your arms while shooting. If done properly, your body should be squared up to the target; your left hand should be slightly above the right; the right elbow should be slightly below the left (causing the right forearm to be angled down just a bit more than the left); and while the left (non-dominant) hand actually drives the pistol to the proper angle of presentation (not the right hand). Abviously, there are many other 'touch' points within your grip that assist in controling the pistol, but vicing and proper alignment and angles of your hands/arms is key

Something else to consider... loose hands are fast hands. Fighters don't clench their fist until just prior to impact (less tension = more speed and dexterity in their hands); grip the shit out of knife and see how fast and fluid your motions are... now loosen your grip and allow the blade to flow and dance w/o as much resistence from you... night and day difference; now choke up on the knife (don't cut yourself) and work the blade w/a high grip... faster, more balanced and much more control of the blade. Look at an MLB hitter... those w/a looser grip on the bat have a much greater bat speed over those that grip the bat hard. Guys like Arraez, Schwarber, and Chisolm have very fast bat speeds (their hands are loose). The same thing happens with a shooter who has a strong 'grip' w/the dominant hand; it results in slower presentation, movement of the pistol and muuuch slower and sloppier trigger manipulation.

Quick circle back to that 'tension and pressure' you felt in your traps / rear shoulders area... this should be where you 'feel' or allow recoil to pass through. Recoil should NOT and does NOT naturally drive the front of the pistol up (this is human input based on years of conditioning while watching TV and such as to how a pistol should behave once fired). Recoil should move reward. Gases and the explosive energy that are pushing the round out of the front of the barrel of the weapon should be creating an equal and opposite reaction at the same time (sound familiar, right); which means recoil SHOULD be driving the weapon back into you... unless of course you are allowing the pistol to control you and eventually as that energy reaches your elbows and causes them to bend more the path of least resistance for that energy is them folding and driving your hands up; which since our brains were taught that the pistol should climb w/recoil would give our bodies confirmation that upward movement means we are doing it right, but unfortunately it's wrong...

Bottom line w/recoil is that it should move reward and be felt in the body; standing shooter w/a pistol should feel the recoil in their shoulders/trap area.... prone rifle shooter w/the buttstock mounted at the shoulder should feel the recoil run through their entire body and exit at the feet. Slo-mo video of prone shooters can be seen w/the energy exiting their body at their feet.

Crap, I'm rambling.... sorry!!!

If you do like the Sig platform better, take a look at the P365-AXG Legion. Just note that it is a striker fired weapon, so it's essentially a single action pistol (like the Glock) and trigger press is the same every time. But, the ergonmics are very consistent to your P322. This pistol is also loaded w/a bunch of upgrades (flared mag well, removable MOS plate (I believe it's a RMR-c compatible platform), so if you decide to move to an RMR at some point you can do so w/o having to buy a new slide or sending yours out to be machined

https://www.sigsauer.com/p365-axg-legion.html

Anyhow, my bad for typing out a book again, but if you want any more info or wanna chat in greater detail and work through some of this stuff prior to getting started, let's move this to a PM so we're not clogging up the thread

 

Need more details please.

 

Smart ass...

Oh wait, here... take that!!!!

 

I'm not quite sure I even said anything remotely close to that....

https://youtu.be/4Iy_LV9lxN8

 

hmmm...I think this is just the cooling off period.

which means, they will work at 50% - at best.

 

Re: pistols

I'll give my completely unqualified opinion.

I started in the early '80's with a browning buckmark .22. still have it. I learned to shoot with that.

then, in the late '80's I got a Glock G19 from a cop friend of mine. still have it.

I learned to shoot real loads with this gun. I still carry it sometimes.

so, my neural pathways know the grip & tendencies of a Glock. That's why I carry it.
my body knows it- instinctively.

its it better than a 1911?...dunno. don't care. I know how to shoot a Glock well.

I do have a
Sig P210 it's a nice shooter.
Staccato P (2011 style) it's the top shooter I have. red dot & all. suppressor as well.
Staccato C2 - small 2011 - I thought I would carry this, but It's not a glock.
Springfield EDM - meh.
Glock 17 with comp. beauty of a shooter.

in short - I only carry Glock (G19* or G26) because that's what my body knows.

learn on the gun you will rely on.

get a good holster.


and for all you heathens with a kydex holster....go tighten those little screws on the side.
don't ask me how I know this.


*I have a Lasermax on my G19. it also has hi viz sights. the lasermax is awesome, as it does not alter the performance of the gun. It's like 4wd...I have it, but never use it. https://www.lasermax.com/green-guide-rod-laser.html

 

That's probably cuz you get stuck and you're like, 'screw it.... this is a now a heavy leg/core day', and you just pull the truck out yourself

 

LOL

truth be told - I forget it's there!!!

 

all this gun talk & now I have to share a story.

I like going to the range & shooting pistols...then go over to the rifle range & shoot 20 rounds of my .308

well, my trucker buddy came one day & decided, since he had such a fun time, he wanted a rifle too.

(FTR - he can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol)

he bought a Fierce Firearms Carbon 6.5 Creedmoor. (picture below)

but....he put a full monte' Swarovski scope on it (z8i).

<yes...that rifle is a $7k pkg.>

this is how far scopes have come....

Ables Ammo zero'd the scope @ 100yds. and set up the app on his phone.

so, my buddy set's up on the 300yd range...puts the little red dot on the target & hits it dead center.

ON HIS VERY FIRST SHOT OF A HIGH POWERED RIFLE.

that's how good scopes/technology are these days.
some say it's cheating...


reminds me of the grumping ICE folks do when I bring up the performance of a Tesla Plaid.

and yes...it's not a skill to shoot that rifle. it's just technology helping humans do amazing shit.

 

I'm be worried about a beer panic

 

Kuul, but Swarovski been putting out top notch hunting optics for 75 years. My Grandfather had a set of Swarvoski binocs he'd let me use before I was old enough to drive in the late 60's. Not sure how that relates to ICE vs EV though. Top notch rifle optics have always been available if you fork out enough money.

 

Yes...I was alluding to the technology of that scope.

it range finds...then, adjusts point of aim. it's dum-dum proof. (my ICE/EV analogy)
it will tell you:
range
flight time
energy at impact
temp
other shit I don't know.


and I can attest to the quality.
I have these at the lake...for....well, birdwatching....yeah, that's the ticket.

 

I'd like a pair of those!