Tundra Power Steering: not enough effort?

Background: 06 AC 2WD Tundra w/ 60% new frt suspension [Bilsteins x4, LBJs, SteerRodEnds, StablzrEnds/bushings, new 265/65-17 x4]. Coming from 7yrs of an 01' Tacoma AC, 2.4L
Although i've just put my first 600 mi's on it [400 long frwy trip, 200 frwy & street] im starting to study its drive characteristics.
So, after the suspension rebuild, it tracks and turns as well as an 18yr old truck can be expected to; might go as far as saying it feels tight, solid, quiet and NEW- and thats w/out an alignment since the rebuild.
So, whats the problem?
Well, it drives so well that Im now noticing the PowerSteering.
It feels as if theres a lack of resistance to steering effort- compared to the Tacoma. It feels too easy to make corrections at all speeds. Again, all I have as reference is my Tacoma [maybe apples-oranges] and thats where difference becomes obvious, maybe due to size/geometry/COG, etc..BUT the Tacoma felt like a perfect balance of resistance or steering effort-to response, so that on freeway runs it was easier to keep centered in the lane. Tundra feels like steering should require more effort to turn wheel, which would seem to stiffen up the steering wheel movement or driver input, if I'm stating that correctly.
According to mechanic, the steering rack is in decent shape and not a leaker. [Next stop will replace the Bracket-bushings]. Thus, Im fairly certain steering rack is doing its job.
Maybe Im being picky, but I did upsize the Tacoma wheels to 16" and went w/slightly wider Yokohama's...made it track waay better on grooved frwy concrete. However, the Tundra has no problem w/frwy groove bias, it just feels too easy or responsive to steering input...or am I expecting too much from a 5/8ton truck?

 

Probably needs an alignment.

-0.3 camber
2.8 caster
.10-.15 total toe


OEM settings have too little caster and make the steering very 'light' and vague feeling.

 

Hmm..interesting...I planned on getting it aligned soon as well. I'll post up results... stay tuned.

 

Assassin's alignment specs make a huge difference

those specs are tried and true for many years by many

 

When you let go of the steering wheel the wheels should straighten up. The amount of hydraulic assist is mostly governed by design. Back in the 70's you could steer by twirling the steering wheel with one finger. I would get an alignment after replacing tie rod ends.

 

Yes @Dook55.
I had a '70 elcamino resto-mod. One of the last mods I had done was to 'quicken' the steering box ratio, which is not the issue here, but i know what youre saying about the pre70s detroit cars and because of those high ratios, they needed to get the wheel turned quickly when parallel parking. In highschool, my big sis drove a 62Tbird and later a 64Impala- those were heavy 'boats'.

@assassin10000: thanks for the alignment numbers- i'll insist on them.

 

On modern cars yes, as they have positive caster to assist with this to have the wheels loaded and push forwards with the weight of the vehicle.


Hydraulic/electric assist would do nothing for this straightening effect. Unless there is an angle sensor and assist is forcefully applied by design/electronics.

The easy spin on older cars is due to minimal or negative caster. Just like a shopping cart, where the wheels follow the push of the vehicle.

 

Got alignment yester- mixed results...

Long version: Went to nat'l chain shop: 'BrakeMasters' [everyones booked]...took about an hour + and after my 5 mi test, I took it bk in and requested to eliminate slight but uniform and consistent right hand pull that puts front tires crossing lane line in +/- 400' from stop to 35mph on near zero x-fall street. Didnt do that before my suspension mechanic replaced LBJs, Outer steer rods and Stabilizr Ends...actually tracked dead straight after installs, but was TOO easy for steeringeffort...so, to BrakeMasters credit, they tried re-aligning and eliminated about half of it. [BTW: The steering effort improved from 'too-easy' to a reasonable amount of input effort needed. Becuase I forgot the 'before/after results printout' on their counter when I left I cant quote any values til later thisweek when I go retrieve the print.]

Longer version: My suspension mechanic did state after parts install that the steer rack brackets need replacemnt but nothing so bad as immediate concern. BrakeMasters, in their very best sales pitch pointed out to me, before alignment, that the rack brackets AND the LCA pivot bushings needed replacement and otherwise suspension would have trouble maintaining alignment settings for the long term. To be fair, theyre not very wrong and I agreed, both items are 18yrs old and that I'd replace later, but for now I just wanna be sure I dont prematurely wear my tires out and that steering tightens up, at least for the 6mo alignment warranty anyway. They quoted labor of RnR LCAs and Rack brackets @ $900 [5 hrs @180 per] but I just left it there...my mechanic will be less, but thats down the road AND when I make these upgrades I'll probly bite down and buy new Toyota LCAs complete w/bushings vs recycle.
So, for now I had a friend w/same spec Tundra but 2004, testdrive about 10 mi to compare..
His opinion is that its not much different fr/his Tundra and that the 'Right-slo-drift' i mention is due to street cross-fall or crown. Basically saying it occurs naturally to any vehicle...not so sure he's 100 on that since my 01 Tacoma tracked much better and my DD Corolla is frt wheel dr gokart on rails...but Im biased.
Although my 'Right-slo-drift' is relatively minor and my use wont be off-road, as I told 'BrakeMasters': I dont wanna drive frwy speeds and constantly have to make steering corrections with my left thumb riding the same spot of the steering wheel for 30 miles.
I'll post alignment values by Friday, in mean time am I being too picky?

 

Did you get their final alignment numbers? They should be able to give you a print out. You would be surprised how different from side to side they will accept as ok


Also make SURE you use assassins's specs

the castor for his soecs are outside of what their machine will say is the range. I had to insist they use his AND give me a print out to confirm

 

Yes, thats what ill post up later, by Friday- forgot printout at their shop.

 

Yes, the LCA bushings and the steering rack mounts both are wear items that have to be replaced at 180K miles or so and they both have an impact on alignment. The only thing difficult is getting the long bolts out of the LCA's. I had to cut them out on both my Tundras.

 

Sorry for late reply; Brakemasters finally found the Alignment specs printout they mis-placed, a few days after their work. Seems a bit weird they dont store a copy of all suspension work done, at least for risk management purposes [accident investigation].

So, here's the specs they set alignment to:



I questioned that Caster went unchanged and theres 1 whole degree between Lt & RT Caster [@Weagle mentions this in #9][also, Camber has a range of 1.5 btwn L&R]? They claim that is Toy OEM spec.
I pointed out its hard to believe that difference would be within Toyota specs., but I wasnt equipped to counter their data in the moment. Just seems excessive to me being a non-mechanic.
Altho the steering input effort has improved [increased] AND they made a revision to their 1st alignment based on my report of 'Slo-Rt-Drift', I think I'll wait to put a few hundred mi's on this alignment and keep and scrutinize my tire wear before anything else is done.
Pre-alignment, with 18yr old suspension [before new suspension parts noted], truck drove excellent [I wasnt micro-assessing, just looking for shake, shimmy, odd noise and gen'l NVH feedback] on its 450mi trip home w/new 265-65/17s ['hwy terrain tires'].
Even after new susp parts, w/out alignment, my mechanic got it so close that i dont remember any 'Slo-Rt-Drift' and only negative was that steering input was waay to soft thats how good my man is].
As far as LCA bushings, I'd prefer to wait a few thousand mi's and install new OEM LCAs. Understood truck may not hold alignment very long, but given all else, curious to see how far out of align, if any, it will get after these latest parts & align.
Before leaving I expressed to Brakemasters that their OEM specs may be correct in theory, but in practice, those specs may be 'legacy', since this truck has 18 yrs on it vs. fresh off the line. I got them to agree to alter alignment specs to my numbers if I sign off on it, which I dont really care about since its a 6mo warranty which I'll return for align reset around the 5 mo mark and if anythings grossly out, I'll re-visit then.
Anyways, still appreciate the comments and advisories. Dont be shy and thank you.

 

Thats quite off if everything is in good condition.

Looks like they only changed toe. The 0.1 camber change on the RF could just be from the toe change.

 

Original Frt suspension parts remaining: UBJs, UCAs, LCAs, Coils, steering knuckles and steering rack...
Except for 'Slo-Rt-drift', truck steers well, makes full steering returns on rt & lt 90 degree turns, and NVH is minor if at all.
I think a couple hundred miles of streets, freeway and county roads will tell me more before I have Brakemasters make alignment changes. Also gonna have my mehanic test drive it.
So maybe im being picky for a non-moded 18yr old...?

 

Yes, looks like very little change from 1st alignment they did; bcuz I reported the 'Rt-drift' after their alignment, reportedly they made a revision, and it feels like it corrected about half of the 'Rt-drift'...but never got that 'revised align report' so hard to say what was done on 'revision'...
Also, a different tech did the revision and since it was a 'come-back' job, who knows how dilligent or experienced he was.
Again, pretty weird, but not out of realm for a shop that does a bunch of services and not just suspension rebuilds/alignments...must be hard to survive as a specialist these days.
If after my 5 mo 'break-in' warranty period i return for a final 'revision' and no change, or worse, then I'll find a dedicated alignment shop.
I only went to BM bcuz the 2 alignment specialists were booked to mid Sept.

 

They basically did the 'ol "toe and go" on you, and charged you for a full alignment. Typical.

 

I heard that! For $129, I shoulda knocked on stealerships door.
I'll drive it a while and plan to return like i said, b4 warranty ends; got a feeling itll become like 'pulling teeth'.
OTOH, if its currently as bad as it can be after 18yrs and my mechanics' suspension R&Rs, [he was pretty damn close to a good alignment 'by-eye'], i cant complain too much.

Also, Im still skeptical about their near zero Caster revision; something had to materially change to create the increased steering effort input. Or I'm imagining it.