Interesting informed take on the Tundra Recall

Ya but people that tow use tow/haul mode probably….which does not lug the engine

 

This is will not be happening, I would imagine for what this recall pays and the tech doing the work they are only going to pass this on to Master Toyota Techs. I would imagine with the budgeted hours this would be 8-12k for the tech doing this.

 

Having 8000lbs on the back of your truck and leaving from a stop is the definition of lugging. Using tow haul mode just changes the shift timing of the transmission, you are still lugging it from a stop when towing heavy.

Point is having a hybrid is not going to save you from a potential bearing failure and the failure rate will be the same as the non hybrid but keep thinking that if it allows you to sleep at night.

 

When I tow, I use the tow modes, and also pull the transmission down into 1st (using manual shifting) when starting up from a stop, RPM's go up quickly so you need to be on the shifter to move it up into second and third, etc.... The transmission seems to go as low 3rd if I don't do this.

It takes off much better and once I am rolling along, I just pop it back into auto.

Not having a hybrid, I don't know what that configuration does when starting up. I would expect that the hybrid motor would supplement the gas motor to get you going from a stop and even put less strain on #1 bearing. But who knows?

 

Comparing peeling paint to a blown motor is kinda laughable. And the rusty frames didn't happen nearly as soon after purchase as these bearing failures. The sludge engines also took several years to develop.

This problem (spun/eaten main bearings) seems to have a much earlier onset than those examples

 

Tow mode or not in tow mode the transmission is still starting off in 1st gear.

The point of all that is the hybrid failure is going to be the same. Tundra owner are not reporting more failure rates because they tow, hybrid or not. Most are cruising along and the engine fails.

 

^ Same as what? It will not be the same percentage of failures nor the same amount. Hybrids probably account for less than 10 percent of all Tundra sales. They make less, they tend to be roughly 1:10 ratio of Hybrids to non Hybrids so the failure rate naturally will be less.

 

I would have thought 1st would be the starting point as well. I noticed this when stopped and I slide the shifting into manual mode and 3rd appears on the display. Then there is the excessive engine revving and what sounds like the torque converter slipping as the truck starts to creep along but eventually the truck starts moving better.

The manual mode takes care of this weirdness at least in my case.

Try popping into manual at a stop and see what gear your transmission is in.

 

It does seem that when a failure occurs the owners are driving on the highway at speed. I can't recall any posts here taking about failure while towing which is sort of strange.

Maybe the solution is to keep the trailer connected all the time and drive in tow mode?

But it could be that the rpm's are higher and maybe the oil pressure is as well providing more flow and cooling to the bearings? Just throwing this out there...

I suspect that Sport mode might do the same thing to the rpm's.

 

Everything I have read is the majority of failures have been the main bearing, and some have been rod bearings, some are #4 and not just the #1 main bearings. Many explainations. A partial clog would wreck the farthest bearing from the oil galley first (oil starvation) Loose debris in the main oil passage would likely damage and be absorbed by the main bearing and ruin it by destabilizing the film.

I see people keep talking about the change in blocks. Well, as Ryan noted pre-ban, they all started using the hybrid block p/n on all productions. Many reasons for this, but we have all noted multiple hybrid failures too, so that change alone does seem to mean what many speculate.

It clearly could be more than debris, but it may not be. The simple fact is the has not been enough information disseminated to the public. Yes a main bearing part is being replaced, but basically every 24 has the same engine as every hybrid except for cleaning procedures. So why does it appear failures are way down? It is not clear.

We do know that tracking down a failure like this takes time and research. We know what Toyota reported in the recall. We know good running engines torn down in testing had debris damage that likely would lead to failure. We know Toyota also reanalyzed their testing process on the bearings, so they were looking to see if the bearings may not be up to spec, and they concluded that research before releasing the recall.

So you may be right or wrong. From what I have seen, there is not enough dispositive evidence that would lead me to believe that debris has not been the key or potentially only cause of the defects (outside of normal mfg failures for other reasons, which will always be the case for every engine).

We will see as more info comes out.

 

You misunderstood, the failure rate is the same per capita. Read the entire discussion.

The point I was making is that hybrid ownership doesn't mean you won't have a bearing failure.

 

As a percentage of sales it means that you are less likely to have a bearing failure or fewer than the probability of having one with the gas only engine.

 

I wonder if we have a good grasp on the 2023's and 2024's as far as failures or percentages of failures. If this has slowed down to more of a random occurrence then we could be looking at the light at the end of this tunnel.

I also wonder what the difference is between the gas and the hybrid blocks that helps prevent the failure or just a process change applied to all the blocks?

 

it's a 3rd gen thing, just let them be. They will get over it(but probably not), at least they arent driving the worst toyota ever built with 54 recalls on it everyday like me

 

Indeed, and I'd still buy a 2010 without worry.

I sleep safe and sound with no mask and not even the cure-all bs shot. Gosh, hope I don't get sick now.

 

It does hurt, the value of the trucks in the used market are tanking as a result of this. The permanent fix for the fuel line should be out by now but no not according to Toyota. Toyota has not handled any of this well, and I think at the end of the day this will take some time to catch up. Once the recalls all get sorted out then I would imagine our Tundras at 10 years old and 100k miles will show the Toyota value. This is why we went Toyota and not another brand of full size pick up. The resale value on Toyota's has always been their biggest asset.

 

There is one member here on his 4th rear diff in 8k miles and I can find rear diff failures on every year Toyota Tundra and Tacoma since time began. It's just a matter of time until we all get it.

 

What? That's not how it works. If you took 100 hybrid owners and 100 non hybrid owners the failure rate would be very similar. Yes there are less hybrid owners but the percentage of failure on the total of hybrid trucks would be the same. As a hybrid owner your chances of a bearing failure would be similar to all other Tundra owners. Installed a hybrid component on the back of the 3.4l doesn't mean you reduce your chances of a bearing failure. It's still the same 3.4 used in the non hybrid trucks.

 

I personally would argue that reliability (or at least our perception of it) has been Toyota's biggest asset. Resale value is a secondary result of exactly that

 

The problem with that logic is that Toyota quality has been falling in the last 10-15 years and keeps getting worse. Ask any Toyota tech. The Japanese manufactured vehicles still have great quality but the NA build quality has dropped. Things that are seen now just wasn't something that happened 10 years ago. The overall assembly quality has dropped and we are seeing more panel, paint and fitment problems. We are now seeing this catching up and resale values will continue falling as the buying consumer starts to loss confidence.

 

I'm pretty sure the number displayed on the dash when you shift into "M" mode is the highest gear the transmission will shift into without manually shifting it higher. It's not the current gear the transmission is in. So, in M mode from a stop the transmission will still start out in 1st gear, but it will only shift up to whatever gear you've manually selected.

Hope this helps

 

Correct.

 

Are you blue in the face yet?

 

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

Sometimes common sense is not that common.

 

It is semantics, if you have 100 Tundra's and 10 percent of the market is Hybrid maybe more or maybe less- then the number of failures can not be the same as the number of failures of the gasoline trucks.

i.e. you have 100 Tundra's - 20 percent fail- then that is 20 trucks on the other hand if the failure rate of the Hybrid is at that same 20 percent failure rate and you only have 10 Tundra Hybrids in the market from the 100 gas powered trucks, then that would be 1 maybe 2 trucks per 10 Hybrid trucks. This is what I was saying- How you took it could be another thing.

I would argue that they care more about the Hybrids, have more quality checks on them and are more concerned about them in production than they are the mass-produced gas-powered trucks. I know for a fact the quality checks are different because my truck set in QC for 3-4 weeks before it was sent to the dealer. The Hybrid components and systems go through various other checks that the standard gas models do not.

and why am I arguing about the third gen, to a 2016 owner who probably is the worst Tundra ever band wagon jumper to begin with? Newsflash it is still the best Tundra model to date and the best one ever made regardless on how you feel about your 2.5 gen or that super reliable v8.

 

I need to get one of those Hybrids! Sounds like they are better.

 

That QC isn't what you think it is. It's a QC hold. That's when your new truck spins a bearing being off loaded from the railcar at port and the kids working at the port rebuild your engine with a new short block.




or worse.

 

I nearly spit up my coffee when I read this!

 

That would be longer than 3 weeks lol

And this people even said the 2022 wasn't an avoid, shocker

https://www.slashgear.com/1608535/toyota-tundra-best-years-some-avoid/