Why do employers complain about lack of loyalty - then screw their employees

Hoping I made the right choice in meeting with the 2nd (well 3rd but first was a screener with HR) interview.

Thinking about it - current job isn’t horrible - but it’s showing signs of getting their fast - guess I’m just aware of the signs of things about to go to shit and more skiddish as I truly do want to go one place and stay - not play these childish games. But the moment they start “comparing metrics” between employees - it’s a matter of time. Way too easy to tweak metrics to make yourself look better than what you are - but in the end you get caught in a case where you eventually are trying to beat the impossible number.

Turning down mega employer - just feels like a bad situation. When you tell me you won’t give me a company car (for a job where I have to drive 100+ miles a day) for 6 months to a year - absolutely feels like I’m “probationary” and they likely will be trying to find someone cheaper - while using me to fill the gap.

The other job does things right (to me) in doing background and screening BEFORE making the offer - they pulled and got mine back already I see. Fullly anticipate an offer - drug test when I arrive for the in person and meet the executive team - but scares me that they will come in too low salary wise. Again I’ll take a few thousand less for a good fit (thinking long term) - but 10k or more would be a tough adjustment.

Maybe I’ll get lucky and they just give me an allowance for company vehicle and let me lease a small truck. I had something similar at my last job - only issue it had to be a Ford and no trucks (SUV or 4 door car only) - was nice but sucked too because a. It was a Ford and b. made no sense in that I could lease an Expedition fully loaded - but not get a F150 for example. Also burned me that although I paid off my lease - when I left they refused to allow me to pay off the residual and keep my vehicle (supposedly one of their perks of working there - this was late 2022 and claimed unable to get new vehicles. Fact was they likely flipped it for a profit.

 

For the most part business loyalty flew out the door with common sense. We are living in different times!!

 

Here's my most stark example of culture/ environment shift. During 8 years on active duty, years 1 thru 4 were, meh. First command, junior guy, paying his dues and building a career. Command climate was good. Morale was decent. Lots of hard work and worked the majority of weekends. My second command, years 5 and 6, the command climate was outstanding. I was a highly respected electrician by that point that could make even the most "broke d***," stubborn of fighter jets, mission capable. The ability to speak my mind especially when things were genuinely f***** was appreciated. We had officers and senior enlisted that knew how to run an operation. The CO, XO, maintenance officer, maintenance master chief, etc. really cared about the people. IF we had to work a weekend, which was very seldom, ALL of the officers and senior enlisted were there as well and grilling out for the troops. Years 7 and 8 were absolute garbage. A new CO and XO, the command climate took a s***. I went from being a "go-to" guy to a black sheep. New CO and XO wanted to always be told everything was ok and to look at things through rose-colored glasses. That wasn't me. I'm a realist not an optimist. It got so bad, the CO ordered me to smile because he was tired of seeing me with a scowl, because frankly I no longer wanted to be there, BUT I still did my job and I did it well. I requested a transfer to another command so I could start new and get a fair shake. DENIED. They told me I would be going on the next 6 month deployment with them. I laughed and told them we're overmanned for aviation electricians across the entire fleet (STOP LOSS was still a thing then, but not for overmanned NECs/ MOSs) and that if my request to leave active duty 3 months early for educational advancement (1 month into the upcoming 6 month deployment) was denied that they'd be hearing from my Senator and I would post it all over the local news. The CO summoned me to his office the following day and chewed me a new one; said I'd given up on the Navy. I told him, "no, sir. The Navy has given up on me." I was holding all the cards. I had everything to offer. They had nothing.
I had the intentions of serving 20 years and retiring. I loved my job, but I wasn't going to war with these d****. Two people effectively killed my career in the Navy. So, I finished out my tour and moved on to civilian life. I have since accomplished much more than I could have ever imagined.

 

Our site manager has been doing quarterly town halls for the last couple of years just to give folks business updates and whatnot. Apparently supervisors across the site (including mine) are booking connects with their teams right after today's so I have the feeling that bad news is coming.

We're in a big push to reduce OPEX right now and they recently brought in an external company to review our organization looking for savings so my guess is more layoffs are coming.

 

As a hiring manager, I'll throw in my general two cents:

I love paying people more and giving them job title promotions, helping build their careers, and remove roadblocks for them.

I expect the work to get done, and don't care how or when nearly as much as the end outcomes get achieved, things are a success if completed on time. My review is on how easy an employee is to work with, and how communicative they are. I ding employees that check work email after hours because that's their time and I don't want it. Work life balance comes first. There will always be more work, but not always more family time.

Not every company or manager is bad, but awful middle management is the difference between good workplace and bad workplace.

 

I see this all the time. Most recently, one of my kids moved to a new company. Tech, much larger salary. Only to get laid off weeks later. Like WTF. They obviously didn't know how to run a growing business.

 

Well - meeting with the execs is this week.

Like I said - honestly cannot see not getting an offer - unless they just absolutely see something when they meet me that scares them off. They ran background and have all that in hand - as well as asked me to be prepared to drug test - just don’t see going through all that for a no.

Actually glad in a way I passed over the mega corp offer - I have no doubt the moment they found someone cheaper - I’d be on my ass. Job has has remained posted throughout process. Something just doesn’t “feel” right there - starting with the fact I never met the person I’d be working for at all - nor could they identify them.

I have seriously considered staying put - but I just don’t see how it could work. It’s not so much a case of preferring to work with my old manager - it’s that the new one is very much an idiot. Very micromanaging and very ignorant of what we do - a bad combo. Having someone who tells you what to do every minute of the day remotely and who has no idea why what they say is so wrong is highly annoying.

Then there’s the “team” - the absolute opposite of the word. 5 individuals just going off and doing whatever the hell they want, when they want and making up their own process/rules. Sadly - this is supposed to be the “elite” team - which is why they put the manager with the least experience in charge - to allow them to “learn” the role from the best employees. Problem is of course you can’t learn if you don’t listen and since everyone does their own thing - it would be impossible to learn anyway.

When I signed on a year ago - one of my key points was I wanted to work alongside training to help bring new people from the company into our group. There was a time 25 years ago that I was an entry level employee - who wanted to learn more about my role and people helped me. So I thought it’s only fair now that I’ve reached the top level of the role to do the same - help people find a career - not just a job. Well - now that we are all lumped together - those opportunities are nil.

I mean - if they said they would make changes - would I like to stay - sure. But no guarantee management doesn’t come up with another great idea and screw it all up again in 4 months and we are right back to the same situation. Burn me once…

 

Well - met with the principles of the smaller place - and still awaiting a call/response.

Met with HR - who went over all the benefits and referenced my start date, my vacation time and benefits - everything but my salary and then met the top 2 in the company - honestly
first was kind of annoying and asked odd questions like when did you go to high school, you married/kids - things that might be “normal” small talk - but not typically allowable for HR/hiring. Head person was nice - but obviously a “figurehead” type leader.

Just goes to show even the small places - leadership can be both out of touch and a bit “elitist” - something I was hoping would be different.

So still waiting on response - mega corp just reposted the job I rejected and a 2nd position more in line with the other. So I guess I’ll reach out and see if any interest there - especially on the newly posted job. Still not 100% on them - but hey - if I’m gonna work for a company whose leadership doesn’t care about me - at least it should be one who pays more and gives a huge benefits package. My biggest fear is the small place offers - but is well below what I make now - making it difficult to say yes - which I can see happening based on their leader’s acknowledgment that they haven’t been profitable for 3 years.

 

You really want to go work for a company that hasn't been profitable for 3 years? How long do you think that can last?

 

This! I left an amazing job due to toxic management and never being appreciated for my work. I saved the company millions, which saved the program we were working on. No thank you, no appreciation, even was told not to attend a party for our team and to just keep working. I took a massive pay cut, sold my house, moved family to a better area to raise our kids.

 

This is certainly a consideration - keep in mind there’s not making a profit and not making a profit on paper for our profit share bonus - difference between making a profit and showing it on paper using accounting that forces the company to share with employees.

I think more concerning to me was just the general attitude - lack of engagement with employees by leadership. Look - having worked for 20k + employee companies - I get the CEO won’t know the majority of employees by name - but when you have 60-80 - and you still walk/talk as if your “special” and don’t know the names of the entry level employees in your office - it’s a tad concerning and says a lot about both your character and your company culture.

Just kind of made me step back - that’s what attracted me to start with - the feeling that it was more of a “family” operation and less corporate. Sometimes it’s just families trying to “act” like a corporation when it serves their ego. Kind of further evidenced by the lack of follow up on their part - you spend a full day meeting with them and make the drive to them (not a short trip) - you’d think a little courtesy would be in order. Live and learn I guess - hopefully didn’t cause me to burn a bridge while I made others wait on their decision - but just goes to show some places can be made look much better by their front line employees and in reality be as rotten at their core as the big boys.

 

Exactly - some places simply do not understand how a good employee makes them profitable - until they leave. Worse - they will never admit their mistakes until they are forced to - and will repeat the mistake again once they find the right person to fix the problem.

 

My (long) story and 2 cents.

I recently quit after 12 years with a single company. A few years ago I really put my mind to achieving my "dream job" within the company and worked my way up to the group/role I continuously targeted in my 5 year plan. Once I got there I was already fully capable (read over-trained) for the role and realized that I had no other growth opportunity, nowhere else to go with my momentum. I got really bored. The company touted ability to easily move within and high value on employee retention, but when I started looking for more it was clear that I was being told to shut up and sit down, be happy with that I've achieved. When discussing potentially leaving the company there was zero counter-offer activity or semblance of aiming for employee retention. Their retention policy was solely based on hoping you didn't have the confidence to leave, and many "lifers" stay and deal with whatever BS comes their way due to that fact; waiting for the next round of lay-offs to "get the package". I also have unconfirmed suspicions that their hiring and employee retention policies were highly influenced by their DEI policies. Don't get me wrong I love diversity, but I also like working with capable teammates.

I ended up landing a new job with work that is really interesting and challenging, people that are great so far, and benefits are even better than where I was. Now my "dream job" is to figure out how to not have a formal job.

Bottom line: Set the ultimate goal, not just the immediate goal. It's just business, you're just another number to any company. Work somewhere that you enjoy the work for now, and benefits and people are good enough and grin and bear it when they aren't to get tenured where it makes sense (vesting periods etc). But also save as much as possible so that eventually when you don't enjoy the work or the politics become too entangled - you can just retire instead!

 

Definitely sounding more and more like a great place to work...

 

This sums it up for how I view being an employee as well. In the last 22 years I've had 2 jobs and one was for 17 of those years. I don't bring my work home with me and when I'm there I bring my A game so that I retain my value to them. In the end employment, from both employee and employer is a business transaction. If the balance of what should be an equitable relationship is skewed someone is losing. Find a balance that fits your needs and your lifestyle and it won't even seem like work. Just a means to an end.

 

In my role as a leader (C level), I've learned some key but simple truths about loyalty:

- In most jobs, we're just one of many workers for a big or small company, unless we're the big boss ourselves. We all are a number and that's OK.
- Loyalty works like a two-way street: what you give is often what you get back, especially if you have good bosses and leaders.
- Middle managers often struggle the most in any company, big or small. So it's crucial for leaders to pay attention to them. Firing them is perfectly fine.
- Your strength as a leader depends on how strong your team is. If you don't take care of your team, they won't take care of you. Team first and I am the last priority when it comes to me. Lead by example, be humble, be listening.
- It's important to stick to your core values, like faith, family, health and country. And if any those values are compromised, it's okay to walk out. There are other companies that will truly value for who you are. Is OK to take risks.
- The way I measure success is by how much positive impact I have on ones life or career. I have several friendships that go back as far as 25-30 years, leaders or people that worked for me.

 

Well an update of sorts.

I emailed asking for an update from recruiter - nothing. But job has been reposted and with a salary range of half of what I make now - so I’m taking that as my answer.

Again - employers are gonna be shady - I get that - but the small places I expect less of this crap and more straight forward talk. Don’t think I’m a fit - fine - just say not interested and move on. Don’t want to pay me what I make now - fine - just say this is what we can pay and let me decide. But this chickenshit way of doing business turned me off ever considering you again - and made me question the integrity of everyone at the company. Hey - it’s a small world and you never know when you’ll be looking at a job and find out someone you met before works there - cuts both ways - networking can be a benefit or a detriment. That’s why I always try to be respectful during the process and after.

So wasted a 6 hour round trip and a day off work on these jackasses - but learned small does not equal better/more honest. I reached back out to mega corp - just to see if offer was still open and pending reply - but today they posted another job that’s in my preferred field (I’ve got more experience on one side of things - but more recent experience in the one just posted) - so maybe have a good fit.

And speaking of small world - the most amazing weird thing happened to me sending a thank you email to one of the people I met with last night - I started typing the email (first name last name at company) and the names popped up (but with a gmail address) - I’m like
WEIRD - why would I have emailed this otherwise stranger before - search it and
turns out he rented a boat from me 4 years ago when we had a boat and rented it out on the side. Once I saw the email - INSTANTLY knew the guy and recalled what an absolute prick he was. I mean you gotta stand out if
I remember you 4 years and 200 rentals ago. It all clicked - dude kept going on how he “knew everything” as he lived on a large lake - and talked a big game. I just said great - but since it’s required I have to go over safe operation with everyone - even experienced boaters. He never called me to check back in - just texted and left at the dock. Discovered damage the next morning.

 

So now finding out mega corp NEEDS someone badly in my specific area. Was posted as being in the closest major city (35 miles away) - but turns out the job is literally in my backyard.

That’s why the big offer to me.

Guess we see how this plays out - would have been nice for the recruiter to say that though. Part of the reason I turned them down was the hour long drive into the city every day. Knowing it’s local makes a big difference.

Also have decided - no more small firms. Used to think the big boys were the most profit driven and had worst management - meeting with a few of these small places makes me realize how bad they are - worse than the big companies and they expect to pay less because their a “small business”.

It’s like the local mom and pop saying “we can’t compete with Walmart - they pay $16 an hour - we cant afford that so you should work for us for $8 so we can remain in business. As long as your a business - I expect to be paid market rate - if you lose money - close up shop or hire better management that makes you profitable. But don’t let you management tell me my expectations of being paid market rates is the issue.

 

There's certain job contentment working with a larger company. Individual stakes are lower and you can punch in and punch out and leave work compartmentalized where it belongs, whereas smaller places can illicit more stress on the individual.

 

You must work at the same place I work, even with the same dispatch center.