Torn between two Tundras

Eh, I've done it before, everything went fine. Then again, it was a new 4Runner from a dealer. They even picked me up at the airport with it and let me drive it back to the dealer to sign.

 

Mine is a Subjective opinion like all others. I don't think the savings is significant enough on the used one, which must now be just out of factory warranty. Are there detailed service records available? It would not seem (To me) Prudent to make the deal without inspecting it closely, and driving it. I would be inclined to buy the new one, and buy the extended warranty. Good luck.

 

1) The 2021 Tundra is over priced IMO.
2) The 2024 is easily 11k more of a vehicle than the 2021.

If they both had 0 miles, I would have the same opinion. I’ve put over 200k on my old 2008 Tundra & have over 35k on my 2022 Tundra.

 

Don’t let gas mileage be a factor. There is almost no real world difference, regardless of what the specs say. Additionally, the tank is smaller on the new one, so you’ll likely be filling up more often.
I have or have had a 2011, 2017, 2021, and a 2023 hybrid. There’s no noticeable difference in fuel efficiency.
All the models are really cool and I like all of them. While I’ve had no issues whatsoever with the 2023 after about 25k miles, longevity is still yet to be determined. If that’s a major concern, that 2021 is almost guaranteed to last you a hell of a long time if taken care of. Other than the large screen and wireless CarPlay, the tech really isn’t a massive step up. You’ll have to modify either sound system to make it really impressive. Music sounds better with a wired connection regardless.
The 2023 is definitely faster, but that’s on a Platinum hybrid. From what I’ve heard the non-hybrid Gen 3s don’t have the same power as the hybrids.
Turning radius is significantly worse on the Gen 3 if that’s a factor for you.

Basically there’s pros and cons to all of them. Just go with whatever you like best. Maybe see if there’s a similar 21 near you that you can test drive.

 

It’s really personal choice on a lot of the features and differences. What I went with is a fully loaded SR5. Here’s what I like about the ‘24:

— the frame. This is a huge improvement. (Cue the defensive trolling music)

— TWO turbos, and the new transmission combo. I love it.

— The rear air suspension. Works great, plus I like the factory leveled look.

— The big gas tank that you can get as an option.

— The cabin design and features.

I haven’t experienced any build quality issues (excessive wind noise, trans tick, etc.) I did thoroughly look over the vehicle. Some of the other vehicles on the lot had minor issues such as weather stripping.

All of that said, it’s just a tool, and if something major goes wrong with it, I will not hesitate to sell it after it’s repaired under warranty.

 

The Lunar Rock ‘21 Pro is the only year of the 2.5 gen in that color, so it’s somewhat of a rare bird. It’s going to be the most expensive 2.5gen truck out there for this reason alone.

 

while I agree in the pros and cons, I haven't had the same experience with my 16 and my 23 as far as MPG, but that said, I just had one of the hog 5.7s, so this one does do a lot better.

Ive never been much of a MPG guy though, I like V8 throat out of my 5.7 borla, and this one I like boost, HA

but 4-6 MPG better is damn lot over the tank full and over the year so Ill take it. I can get 20 easy in this thing if I wanted to, I couldn't even touch that at all rolling downhill with a sail in N with my 5.7.

I don't really care about faster, but this thing has torque low like a diesel and with the 10 speed, its damn nice, everything is so easy.


OP, here is my worthless .02. get the 24, particularly if you're going to tow at all, the towing performance, power, stability is really significantly improved. The truck does everything better, has a higher payload, higher towing, way more features, rides 100% better.

I highly recommend the load leveling rear if you haul or tow , its awesome.

 

Well, the 2021 was reserved Saturday evening before the dealership closed shop. I think I’m going to go ahead and stick with the 2024 Limited OR in Lunar Rock. I’m getting 4k off MSRP (could maybe do better, but I feel that’s fair), 4.99% interest for 60mo (hope to pay it off in 2 years), and Toyota Platinum 10/125,000 for $1500. It’s local, so no worries about coordinating an inspection, taking off work, and flying.

Maybe planning to keep the truck 10+ years is a bit ambitious. If that happens, awesome… but I shouldn’t lose my ass too much if I ever trade it in. I’m going to stay off CarGurus and wait for delivery of my 2024.

I appreciate all of your insight. All Tundras are awesome! I’m grateful to get one.

 

if you tow , get the load leveling rear OEM, you be happy you did.

either-way, good luck and welcome to the Gen 3 club

 

We must have significantly different driving habits. My numbers will be a bit skewed because I sit in my truck with it running quite a bit. I generally take my lunch breaks in the truck so that’s around five hours a week just idling.
I also don’t get many highway miles. Most of mine is suburban stop and go driving.
I’m averaging a little over 13 mpg which is about what I’ve gotten on all my Tundras. I keep the new one in “Comfort” mode. Not sure how much difference that makes either way.
I do have a 3” lift and 35” tires, but that’s the same setup I had on my 17.
I just haven’t seen much difference between any of them as far as fuel efficiency goes. I do have a lead foot though.

 

well ya man, lol. lift, 35"s, lead foot, and idling, never going to do even decent in anything doing that.

and we can't compare to each other, for sure, I was only comparing my two direct vehicles.

 

I have seen up to 21 with my STOCK 23 trd sport. . It was actually 20.8 on a trip from Aberdeen NC to my home in GA. Cruise on 75 most of the ti.e and luckily went right through ATL without traffic. . That never happens, btw! Most of my driving around here back and forth to work I see 17-18

 

That's a win! Congrats!

 

True, but my 17 has the same setup, my 11 and 21 Tundras didn’t, and mileage has been pretty consistent between all of them.

 

Frank,
I disagree, how many Tundras have you owned? I’m going on my 4th Tundra and 23 years now. Which means I’ve owned those Tundras to near and over 100,000 miles. The new generation is completely different from the ground up however it still is a Toyota product and if you have owned these brand and model as long as I have, Toyota puts higher quality parts in Toyota vehicles. No truck is perfect that’s why they offer extended warranty’s that can be purchased within the 3 year, 36,000 mile period.

If you have ever bought a Toyota extended warranty. You would see 19 pages of what’s covered. And 1 page of what’s not covered which falls under normal wear and tear. The extended warranty’s go up to 10 years. Do you think Toyota would offer these Toyota warranty’s if they knew there vehicles were unreliable?

Ford,RAM and Chevrolet all have had bugs in new truck lines but it’s how they take care of the customer and how they fix the problem.

This is a reason why I stay with Toyota.

 

One more thing,
Don’t forget to buy yourself these front recovery hooks. Mark with TundraDude 34 on YouTube just did a review and install video on these.

Welcome to the Lunar Rock Club!
Great decision

 

Win for the Gen 3 club. Good work all around guys

 

I've always done the exact opposite: buy a used vehicle with detailed maintenance records from a private party in cash, letting someone else take the brunt of the depreciation hit. And then we drive them forever. The market got so nutty in late 2020 when I was looking for a truck that I ended up buying my Tundra new (first time ever).

Last vehicle I bought is an immaculate 2009 LX570 with 149k miles in cash. Nov '22. We've put 25k miles on it since. Baselined all the maintenance. Swapped in Tundra brakes up front. 5w30 every 5k miles. It will last us for the next 10 years.

I can get 19+ on a lifted, modded 5.7 truck. But our one-off highway cruising trip reports don’t matter. An accurate picture of real world fuel economy is only found when you take entire tank averages and average those together over time. That’s what Fuelly does, and the difference between the 2nd and 3rd gen Tundra is around 3mpg. Same case for the 2nd and 3rd gen Sequoias.

Maybe for your use case. But the new drivetrain will not last as long as the old; it is far more complicated and inherently harder on itself. All the on-pavement ride improvements and needed cooling for the 3.4TT come at the following costs: much longer hood (that tends to blind several drivers), far less suspension articulation, lower ground clearance, less visibility, smaller interior yet larger overall, substantially larger turn radius...all of which make it worse for off-pavement driving. I understand that placing a high value on these criteria probably places me in the minority.

If you're looking for on-road manners, tech, and low end torque, I agree the 3rd gen is better at those things. But it is a significant departure from the tried and true, old school, off-road oriented, take any punishment and keep going forever trucks that Toyota is known for. The value of the changes (+3mpg, +200 lb payload, +giant screen, -200 lb rear axle rating, -ground clearance, +turn radius) isn't there for me. I wish it was. I was really excited to see the new truck.

 

yup, I don't give a shit about off roading (if I did I would likely have something smaller and not a new full-size truck, no matter the brand), my use case is all that matters, same to you and yours, I get that.

but you are a pro at finding the few negatives about the truck, Ill give you that and I 100% admit its not perfect, nothing is.

you don't know for a fact, none of us do, if this engine will be more or less reliable, time will tell. It's not like toyota hasn't built a single small turbo engine pushing 100 hp+ per liter in the past that lasted. So you can't just make a blanket statement as gospel quite yet, we shall see. The 5.7 isnt perfect either, although I like that motor a lot too, but the 5.7 6 speed feels really sluggish and has to work towing a lot more compared to this. Look at the IKE gauntlet test towing 8,500 up the hill, the 5.7 was screaming like a maniac all the way and got like 3 MPG, the 3.4 TT cruised up at 2,500 rpm without even breaking a sweat, so in some cases we can argue about which is working harder

it also, has a

higher payload
more HP
more and lower RPM torque (479 @2,400)
higher towing
rides better
tows WAY better
gets 3-5 better mpg (like you said)
has much better views with the 360 cameras including front camera,
has an auto load leveling rear
drive modes
hybrid option
OEM locking rear
MTS
TRD factory lift with warranty option (to solve your ground clearance thing)
6.5 bed on crewmax option
so many more small creature comforts I cant even list them (heated steering wheel, USBs, heated and cooled front and rear, etc)
power ports in the bed (although it should be higher, but older one has none)
fits 35"s with no mods (if thats your thing)
10 speed trans (which is excellent)
auto power running boards
auto power bed step
Heads up display
Pano roof
rear sun shades integrated.

there's more but thats enough for the "pros" of the truck.

I think we've done this many times before, lol, anyway, always enjoy our talks

 

Boosted engines, particularly in trucks, do not have the longevity track record that NA engines do.

This is merely driver perception. Look at the cooling systems for both engines (this is the reason the approach angle on your truck is so much worse...they had to make room for the massive cooling system up front). It is obvious that the 3.4TT works much harder to make its power.

It was designed for this. Do you tow on Ike? I don't, but I will if I start taking a trailer with me for western hunts. And I'll do it with my 5.7. High RPMs don't cause any hand-wringing here.

I bought a truck to go to places that have no cell reception and come back every single time. And to do that for 10+ years on basic maintenance. That's my use case. And the fact that it can handle 8150 lb if properly distributed without overloading either axle comes in very handy. Being a bit over payload on trips but well within axle ratings doesn't bother me at all.

Yes, we've gone back and forth a lot. I'm glad Toyota makes a truck each of us prefers. But "it does everything better" is a ridiculous statement to make IMO

 

so the 5.7 was designed to rev like crazy, but the 3.4 isn't designed for boost?

you can't have it both ways and say toyota designed the 5.7 to rev like crazy, but toyota didn't design the 3.4 for boost, talk about ridiculous, you yourself said there is robust cooling for example.

That isn't the reason the approach angle is worse, the reason the approach angle is worse is two things

1) TNGA implementation
2) they had to lower it and focus more on mpg because of the EPA bullshit.

my guess is they knew this and to try to satisfy fellas like yourself who do off-road, they released the 3" TRD lift from the factory.

you can talk axles all you want, I get what you are saying, but the fact is, the payload is in fact lower, my 2016 platinum crewmax was only 1,100 lbs. I can at least get into this thing and still have 1000 lbs+ left over, and most who have weighed these are finding a few hundred more. Axles are not the only thing involved in payload calcs.

but, at the end of the day , we both have tundras we like, which is cool and your not the usual gen 3 hater with no reasons.

for me, this is my 5th tundra, I like them all, in particular my 2001 TRD Luxury Sport thunder grey 4.7, I had tons of mods on that, you can see the custom center arm rest with 2 JL 8"s in there, HA.

That was my second tundra, I had a 2000 in late 99 at launch, and was on tundra solutions.com in 2000 modding tundras, been in the tundra game a long time.

 

Tern


If you get a good well maintained vehicle sure you can make that work. My issues is no one is going to tell you what issues that vehicle has had. even a well maintained vehicle could have hod real issues. It was in a flood for example. Or it had major engine work. I watched a you tube video just last night where a guy tore down a blown 3.5 eco boost. the engine had been taken apiart prior to failure. He found vice grip marks on the cam shafts....the dummy used vice grips to hold the cam shaft instead of a wrench on the end of the shaft. He found the main seal spring completely off the seal and sitting outside the engine, and the oil pan pick up tube clogged full of RTV sealant. It is these type of things . the unknown that makes me buy new and do as much maintenance as I can do myself. But to your point if you can find a good used vehicle ( you'll only know this once you drive it for 80,000 miles) then yes you save a bundle on the initial depreciation.

As far as the 3.4 twin turbo, seems this may be a crapshoot too. However I'm banking on Toyota's innovation and previous commitment to quality. I'm old enough to remember then 4 cylinder engines (1970's) became more popular than V8 and V6's. Everyone said the same thing. Rice burners. they won't last. They are to high rev....... Looking back Toyota had such good technology that their 4 cylinder engine outlasted any of the V8's made by GM, Ford, Chrysler, American Motors, V8's they put out. And far more reliable too. So the new technology that pushed beyond what our past interpretations have been doesn't concern me. The fact that the turbo's have a waste gate / on demand and that they contuse to cool when the engine shut off says that this new breed of engine is well thought out. Could Toyota have missed the mark ? yes but think that their reputation is on the line with the new I force line up of engines. Hoping that with 3500 mile oil changes and good maintenance that I will get reasonably good miles out of it. Good exchange with you.......kid

 

Get Both!

 

Good decision for you OP. That Toyota Factory backed warranty is the peace of mind to go with the new one. I'm sure the truck will do well for you. If not come back and let us know what to watch out for.

Me. I went backwards in vehicles to simpler for longevity. Went from a 2022 to a 2018 Tundra with 32,500 miles on it. I want this to last a decade.

Funny thing is I didn't even consider a warranty on the used 2018. I would absolutely purchase one on a new Tundra as I did on my 2022 Ford and 2017 Ford.

As time goes on I do want to see these Tundras go a million miles with routine maintenance.

I'd also do 5,000 mile oil changes with a Turbo motor, not 10k, unless you have your oil tested by a company like Blackstone. The high mileage Ecoboost F150 guys swear by it.

Also from the Ford guys. It is Eco or Boost, your choice. The MPG savings come when not in boost. They drink like V-8s when you do.

Edit: I have purchased new and used. I do painstaking research on the used ones. I don't buy ones that haven't been on the market for at least 5 years plus have a precise maintenance history. In the 10 used, I haven't had a single issue. That includes a couple of rental vehicles as well.

Further Edit: Driving a used 2018 Tundra right now. Not a single issue in the 6 months and around 6,000 miles I have driven it. It looks, drives and runs like a new vehicle.

 

My past 3 trucks I have bought new and owned for 21 total years and lost $42k in overall depreciation driving 315k miles. Those trucks cost me $164 a month in depreciation. I could have gone used and got that down to a lower number maybe like $114 a month. But after factoring in increased maintenance on older and higher mileage rigs I am good with the extra $50 month going new

Point is get you a piece of paper and total up estimates for all costs. Buying a new truck is often not that much more than a used one. Cheaper up front does not equal cheaper over time

 

I do think the 3.4tt will most likely be the most reliable of the ttv6s, but it is well known that boosted engines (again, esp in truck applications) don’t have the longevity of non-boosted.

They are totally different engines. It’s not a “have it both ways” thing.

I know a couple local and honest independent mechanics. They’ll do pre-purchase inspections where they’ll run through the entire vehicle top to bottom for like $75. If a dealer won’t agree to 3rd party independent inspection then great, they just saved me a lot of time and $75.