2022 Limited Tundra engine failure

found this gem….. hard to believe the blocks weren’t cleaned properly. It seems like a pretty eleborate process.

https://youtu.be/zPgXMND9N0M?si=Yzsj2fV0MG_4HK92

 

Seems they are starting to narrow in on the problem finally

so it’s a manufacturing problem not a design problem it seems

 

is it cheaper to wait? People buy Toyotas for reliability and resale. Engines blowing up hurt that reputation. Hyundai did a big recall. Personally I like to see that.

it’s not the failures that are the deal, it’s how the problem is handled

 

agreed. All the more reason to make sure it doesn’t happen.

‘was just saying the whole manufacturing process seems

I’m not comparing numbers. I’m comparing how the issue was handled. Was the % of Hondas/hyundias simillar to Toyota?

 

Couldn’t have said it better myself

 

My only contacts represent the southeast region SET. TMNA is the manufacturing arm of Toyota USA. They send stop inspections for potential defective parts. Our crew already identified one engine falling into the risk group but since we are just one of numerous distributors, the inventory level is small by comparison. No more than 50 engines in stock. The dealer is almost finished with my truck. I’ll try and get some more insight on the issue. It’s the 2nd one he has done this year.

 

Ford is using Long Blocks. I find it interesting why Toyota is only using short blocks and dealers have to build up engines. Seems much better consistency to only supply Long Blocks for replacement.

 

You guys are in a good hands! Around 0:45, she visually inspects a crankshaft and removes all shavings she spots, see?

Compare it to VAG engine assembly line where there are two workers drinking coffee in control room.

 

You got build page?

 

Yeah, cheaper for Toyota to just let 'em fail, especially since many will do so after the warranty has expired... and we don't know which of us are at risk. Great.

 

it tarnishes the brand. Apparently they are known to correct issues on the down low. I have no idea.

 

I don't believe in the tooth fairy or silent corporate policies. So, when they announce that, I'll believe it.

 

Then their customers will never announce it, but they will change the brand of the next vehicle.

 

Didn’t Toyota replace rusted truck frames (tundra and Tacoma) well outside of warranty?

I know there are secret (or not so secret) programs to address issues

 

Maybe. But if an owner has a failure at 70,000 miles and out of warranty and doesn't know to ask? And will Toyota cover my costs and hassles if I break down 3000 miles from home due to a time bomb defect they knew about?

They need to be transparent and let us know if we have a suspect motor, even if they won't replace it until it fails. That way we can at least make an informed choice whether to trade or not.

 

Yes, but that is a whole different thing. A rusting out frame is a slow motion thing whereas a motor failure can instantly strand you anywhere anytime.

 

not,Toyota related, but we had a 2013 Nissan Sentra. CVT blew just outside,warranty. Dealer did nothing. (They said “we always go to bat for our customers” when we bought). Car was serviced properly.

Nissan did nothing. We offered to go half, etc. well years later there was a class action law suit. We got our money back. So Nissan had to pay us after all, but we now drive Toyotas. I actually would have bought another frontier truck but was so turned off by Nissan. (They haven’t corrected the CVT problem)

 

it’s not apples to apples, but my point is that Toyota didn’t have to replace the frames. But they did. Perhaps this will happen with the engines.

 

^ never mind. There was a class action law suit. Toyota settled and replaced frames

 

I had one of those Tacomas. Mine wasn't bad enough for a new frame but got their rust treatment.

 

Hasn’t this engine been used in Lexus models since about 2018? I have 23k miles on my TRD OR LIMITED, no issues - mostly highway commute and towing our 27ft airstream…

 

Yes, and there have been a few that have blown in those models as well. I believe that the Lexus is a slightly different model but very similar.

 

thanks I’ll read up for sure.

I’m cautiously optimistic that my rig will be OK, if not my 10yr/100k warranty should hopefully get me through any major future issues.

 

What he said. Warranty. Warranty. Warranty. For all concerns, not just the engine. Drive your truck, enjoy, and maybe you get a brand new engine someday for free.

 

The vast majority of engines have no troubles at all. Just drive it and live your life. If it blows, then use the warranty. Much of our lives are consumed about worrying about things that will never happen.

 

I'm not sure why you guys are so focused about extended warranty - it's easy enough to throw $2k at it and buy a 10 year extended warranty. That pretty obvious.

The problem is that your warranty won't save your day if your engine fails while you're many hours away from home on vacation... Or just knowing that your truck may suddenly break when you're driving 1000s of miles away from home with your family. We don't buy expensive new Toyota trucks for having these unknown risks.

 

All the pros and cons make sense in both ways. Most of us have been spoiled with Tundra reliability in the past. Welcome to the real world of corporate corner cutting for the all mighty dollar. Trust is earned and mine is way down right now. I was upset like so many at Toyota getting rid of a nearly bulletproof engine. The new engine does everything they say but at what cost ? Guess we will see.

 

My wife said this exact thing two days ago

 

I’m cautiously optimistic that my rig will be OK, if not my 10yr/100k warranty should hopefully get me through any major future issues.[/QUOTE]
After @ryanwgregg shared how he drives his ‘22 daily and a few others over 100K already, I quit worrying. Thanks Ryan.
* Finally punched mine for the first time yesterday to merge onto the Fwy when a guy wouldn’t let me in - Rocket Ship!!

 

Wall of text warning.

Let me preface this post by saying that these are my thoughts as someone who has worked in corporate marketing for MNCs the majority of my career. This is to bring a little context to the whole "why don't they do a recall" or "this is going to kill Toyota's public image" comments.

Side note: Do I want them to own up to any & all issues publicly as a consumer and owner of their products? Of course, I do. However, coming from my experience, do I expect or anticipate them actually do that? Nope. Not unless it hits some point of critical mass down the road.


Topic # 1 - The "this is going to be a public relations issue" conversation:

• What you're really talking about is any potential impact to Toyota's "brand equity", which is what most (if not all) large corporations care about behind their stock price, EBIT, etc. It gives a monetary valuation of their brand and is usually carried deep on a company's balance sheet (or lumped into a generic line item like "goodwill"). Any significant negative swing to that valuation can have a very real impact on stock price and it's something that CMOs and PR professionals in public companies tend to watch over carefully. However, in practice, it takes a lot (and I mean a lot) of public negative...or even positive...sentiment to move that needle one way or the other.
• I know, within our own echo chambers (like this forum), the issue can look like the sky is falling for Toyota but it's really not. Good for Toyota. Bad for us Tundra owners, in the sense there isn't a lot of incentive for Toyota do something public right now.
• Tundra sales represent only 6.59% of total Toyota sales units YTD 2023. The Tundra is, and has really always been, a very small portion of Toyota's business. BTW: That % is specific to Toyota-branded vehicle sales YTD. The percentage of total sales drops from 6.59% to 5.69% if you look at all of TMNA (includes Lexus). (Sources: Toyota Q1 & Q2 Sales, Toyota Q3 Sales, & Tundra sales by Quarter)
• Even if the engine failure rate was as high as 10% of all Tundras sold, that would still only be .69% of total Toyota sales YTD 2023. From what we've heard, the failure rate is nowhere near that high. @ryanwgregg says it's closer to .5%, which is only .03% of total Toyota sales YTD 2023. Either way, it's barely enough for Toyota to even bat an eye at right now, unfortunately.
• Comparing this to any Ford recall of the F-series is really comparing apples to oranges, from a brand perspective. Ford reported total F-Series sales of 573,370 units YTD 2023. Granted that includes ALL F-series trucks (excluding the F-650 & up) and not just half-tons. Let's say, conservatively, that F-150 sales make up only 50% of that 573,370 number (it's probably closer to 60%-65%). That would be 20% of total Ford-branded sales units YTD 2023 compared to only 6% for Toyota. Given that the F-series is such a huge portion of Ford's sales, they are incentivized to act quickly & publicly on any issue. Toyota doesn't have the same public risk exposure with the Tundra that Ford does with the F-Series. (Sources: Ford Press Room - Q3 Sales & Total Ford Sales YTD 2023 - Ford Authority)

Topic #2 - The recall conversation:

Automakers are like any other for-profit company. It all comes down to what is cheaper for them in the long run. Is it cheaper to perform a mass recall, or just fix the trucks one-by-one as they fail? Their legal department, which I can only assume is massive, I'm sure has already calculated the possibility of this issue rising to the level of a possible class-action suit and judged it to be a minimal risk (at this time). Their marketing & PR departments have likely also performed a review of any potential change in their brand equity number and also judged any negative change to be low risk (at this time).

I think Ed Norton's character (a recall coordinator for an automaker) in Fight Club said it best:

• Narrator (Ed Norton): A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
• Woman on Plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
• Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
• Woman on Plane: Which car company do you work for?
• Narrator: A major one.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong what they're doing. All I'm saying is that's how the corporate world thinks & acts.