UAW workers launch unprecedented strike against all Big Three automakers

That's actually a point I think about every time this union stuff is in the news.
Do't get me wrong, I'm onboard with the concept and point of a union. I don't think employees should be treated like bic lighters and worked to death, then discarded like trash. BUT every time this comes up, the union talking heads' main talking point is always that if it wasn't for them, these products wouldn't happen. They want their "rightful share" of the company's success. Um, hold on a minute. Yes, you deserve to be treated fairly and compensated for your work, but you are an employee, a line worker. Someone else can be trained and take your place. You are not a founder of the company, an investor, or even someone that helps design new products or an engineer that builds and develops them. So, I draw a line at them being "entitled" to all this extra money because the company is doing well, or better than last year. "Should" a company throw their employees a bone when they do better? Sure. Are these employees entitled to it, as if they built and own the company? Nope.

 

Yup, and if the pay or situation isn't up to what the employee feels they can make then they can always quit and go find a different job. That's how a free system is supposed to work. A bad employer would lose skilled work and potentially sink their business if they don't fairly compensate. Remember that the employees agreed to the terms when they signed on to work there.

There's a video of a college campus visitor (I can't say his name because somebody might declare it political and I don't want a 30 day ban) discussing the concept with a student and using a pencil factory as an example. It's dead simple and illustrates how the pencil doesn't get made without the worker, but the worker also has taken on none of the risk that the factory owner has, and so the worker isn't entitled to the majority of the profits. The worker agreed to make the pencils using the materials and facilities that the owner has provided for a wage. Complaining that you aren't getting rich as a worker is highly entitled, as you agreed to a contract for employment. You took none of the risk. If that factory folds, what is the worker out? A job. They can go get another job. What is the owner out? All the capital invested to make that factory that provides jobs was put forth or borrowed by the owner. The worker isn't on the hook for any of that, so they aren't entitled to the lion's share of the profits.

 

this is good stuff.

My mind was limited to the view of an employee right up until I jumped to the ownership side.

and it's my contention that it is monumentally difficult to understand the ownership mindset if you've never risked ALL your damn assets and had to answer and protect All your employees.

it's not better or worse...it's just different.

and I understand the passion of BOTH sides of the coin. Most don't.


When the UAW wants more $ to produce a shitty product, it's like crossing the beams in Ghostbusters.

if UAW is producing those products, they don't get to call a mulligan when someone calls them on their antics.

 

@BTBAKER, you asked why the KP strike is not being criticized the way the UAW strike is? Here's your answer. Their requests are very reasonable, maybe even a little low. My wife is a nurse practitioner. She hasn't had a pay raise in several years. Productivity bonuses, but no raise. She's not complaining because she gets paid pretty well and she knows that the government-run health system has VERY low limits on what they will pay for procedures and office visits.

There's the rub right there. The UAW wants more, more, more when the company is making money, but I NEVER heard about them willingly accepting pay CUTS when the auto companies had bad years. They want all the benefit with none of the risk.

 

It's particularly fun assuming that liability for every procedure, 8-15x/ day, working in fractions of millimeters with instruments and tools designed to cut the hardest substance in the body, millimeters away from some of the softest tissues in the body that just so happen to be vital structures.

But, DO IT FOR FREE YOU GREEDY ASSHOLE!

 

His comments were not directed at the medical union situation. Calm down.

 

I'm doing my best to keep on topic* (UAW). Even when we sway away momentarily, I'll bring it back in line.

I guess my wife is correct when she says I'm a bad communicator!




*I love healthcare workers on the clinical side. Not so much on the admin side.

 

@Bakershack, you are not following me. The rhetoric throughout this thread is that unions do nothing but damage, harbor shit hole workers, create laziness and division.

My responses have been steadfast. That unions have a place and are warranted in many industries.

But, I knew nobody on here would attack our healthcare workers, cops, firefighters, pilots etc..

It is hypocrisy. Where are these members here with their hard line union stance?

 

Oh trust me I know his weren't.

Read closer; the portion of his post I quoted had to do with ownership and assumption of risk / liability. Which as a private practice owner, that's where my comment came from. Finally, my last sentence (which is what I'm sure you're recommending I calm down over) was made in jest and wasn't directed at anyone in particular, other than the prevailing notion that healthcare should be a commodity.

 

You are painting anyone opposing the UAW actions as a union hater and then calling them hypocrites when they aren't actually hard line union haters. That's a very small box that you're trying to stuff us into. It's been said, multiple times by multiple people, some unions are ok in some situations. That does not invalidate the criticism of those unions that are not. It's not completely black and white, as there are examples of both good and bad union practices and policies.

 

Here's one. I think the unions make it way too hard to fire bad cops, pilots, and teachers.

Fight me

 

Cuz they didn't show up on a non-UAW related truck forum ranting about how unfair life is for them while earning at least six figures annually

 

Stupid. You can do better.

 

Completely off base and definitely untrue.
This thread morphed from the UAW situation to many people talking about how unions suck and create laziness etc. THAT is when I got involved and began to comment. I commented on the UAW situation but, I could really care less

 

The UAW's actions aren't uncommon for many unions. People have presented their own experiences with that exact union and the laziness and stupidity it pushes, and you say it's a one off. Now, if people make general statements about unions you're saying it's not fair and should only be about the UAW. Which is it? You want specifics, as provided that you complained about, or do you want generalizations that you are currently complaining about?

 

Not accurate. Not at all. Speaking of which I read your comments in a couple of threads. Sometimes you talk in absolutes. Sometimes you’re in the middle. Which is it?
My arguments have had nothing to do with the UAW. Although, I support their fight however unrealistic some of the things may be.
I’m pointing out that nobody had an issue talking in absolutes about unions but have nothing to say about these healthcare people. Why?

 

Honestly, folks... we need to quit shaking the jar!!!!

The corruption or unfairness or whatever we want to call it doesn't come from the union workers or the public at large floating around an opinion of said unions or said union workers. All of this shit is being leveraged way above these 'rungs' of the food chain. If you're upset at the system or the product, or the compensation, start blaming the source...

CEOs and other high-level board positions, etc. are being filled and occupied through leverage of large investment firms. Spend some time scanning through or searching names and associates of the largest investment firms and then look to see what other 'tables' they are sitting at.

IE>>> 'You make me a decision maker for your company, and I'll funnel money via investments back to you and your company'...

It's one big circle jerk for us while the folks w/real money continue to get wealthier at the expense of the hard working American.

What about the investment companies that are attempting to saturate and re-structure a particular country who's been receiving astronomical amount of funding to support their well-being?? If that money was going to fund their survival and well-being, investment companies would have no reason to be there because there would be no money to manipulate...

However, for those that want to argue wages vs. inflation.... Wages have never kept up w/inflation, when inflation skyrockets. If they did, it would be so unsustainable it would cause collapse at much lower levels. An example of this is minimum wage. Let's say we push minimum wage to $20/hr in an attempt to 'keep up w/inflation or other company profits, growths, etc..'

At $40k/yr for a full-time employee, does anyone really think that employee will be able to afford a home, car payment, health care, food, and the usual crap that life throws at you??? I'm guessing not comfortably...

However, to sustain an increased minimum wage in the industries that generally pay those wages, the business will have to charge even more for their goods, services, etc. Fast food is something that comes to mind... No longer a 'cheap and quick' meal. If you hit a drive through for a quick lunch, you're spending 2-3x what you spent 5-10 years ago on your meal. However, your wages (as a minimum wage employee) have not gone up enough to support and sustain those kinds of increases (even w/the few dollars an hour increase in your wage), so you start to bury yourself or go without to survive... There are only so many columns in a person's budget that will sustain these kinds of increases.

Point being, a raise or higher wages isn't always the answer. When companies are strong armed into higher wages, they just pass down those expenses to the consumer; we are all consumers, so we all pay. When the large companies fail, they get bailed out; bail outs come from taxes, we all pay taxes and therefore we all pay...

 

Your arguments thus far appear to be nothing but defense of unions and espousing their necessity, regardless of the multiple accountings of unions being burdensome or corrupt. The only absolute I've seen here is your defense of unions. I speak in generalities all the time, but not absolutes.

 

Ok, you want me to do better... What exactly is your job title and job description, and what is your current hourly wage and benefit package (including OT, Holiday Pay, Stock Options, etc...)????

...from there, I'll do better!!!

 

I disagree. This thread has mainly been full of negative comments about unions with only a handful of people coming to their defense. There have been a lot of low effort responses from people who just wanted to complain about unions without adding any real value to the discussion.

 

I’m unemployed.

 

Thank you.

 

That once again, is complete nonsense.

 

I won't deny the low effort complaints, but the valid ones have been dismissed equally.

 

Just saying "you're wrong" doesn't make it so. You've called peoples accounts of union experiences "stories" but expect us to take you at your word that they are needed and a net good.

 

No. I don’t. I want the hardline people here to get back at it. Where are they?

 

The only hardline I saw was @Azblue and he probably said his peace and then quit following the thread because he had beer to drink. LOL

 

I’ll bet he’s hiding in the weeds. In fact, he’s viewing now.

 

Because I tagged him, and he's probably wondering WTF for.