Stay or jump ship ? Just got another stupidly insane job offer

So I've talked about my absolutely insane job jumping/career the past 2 years here before - well - today it took another turn.

Got a call from a recruiter about 2 weeks ago - has a small company/local to me now that would like to talk - just a preliminary Zoom call with a few management types. I know the company somewhat - they are small and a tight group - certainly the type of people I like to work with and given that they are local - if nothing else a good networking opportunity so I agree. Made it clear I'm not really looking to move from my current job - but if the opportunity were just simply too good - we could talk more.

So she sets a call for this past Friday at 4p - talked with manager to be/supervisor - supervisor to be and the outgoing supervisor - all very old school guys and had a nice 20-25 minute chat about the company and what interested me about them/my skill level. Thought ok - just a feeler first interview - I'll probably get a call early this week asking to do a 2nd more formal interview with senior leadership and may even possibly be a 3rd - if we both decide its something we want to pursue.

Well Friday at 4:45 I got a call from the recruiter - I ignored it thinking it was just an obligatory "how did it go" follow up. Get a call at 8a today from them again and I answer prepared to let her know it went ok - still not sure but overall seemed to like me. Instead I get met with - they want you and are preparing an offer packet - how soon could you commit? I'm like HUH? damn this is fast - place knows nothing more about me than I could share in 15 minutes and they are ready to offer - what's wrong and why are they so desperate ?!? Guess I just made a very good impression on the outgoing manager and he wanted them to sign me ASAP.

Still awaiting the formal offer - but have been offered position if I want it and have absolutely no idea what to do. I know the money will be at least 20% more than I make now - I made it clear I wasn't just changing jobs to change jobs - so they know my minimum price going in was high. It is a more challenging job - but no more than the one I left last November that I swore I'd never leave until the company pulled some dirty shit a few times in a row and then refused to even budge on salary when I started getting offers of 40%+ over my salary. Kinda setting here making a pro/con list and I am stuck.

Pro: more money (money isn't everything - but my work isn't charity so it is something), would be a smaller group - few layers of management and potentially to move up if someone above steps down - there are just so few employees that I avoid the 8 layers of management like so many other jobs. A more challenging work environment and not so much of the brain dead work that I do now which is more repetitive task like.

Con: I really like my manager now and have a good working relationship. Of course part of the reason I like them is they are pretty hands off and some of my coworkers are so horrible they have to spend all their time trying to get them to work that having me is like a dream for them. Company I work for now is big - but not huge, not like market goes to crap and they need to cut expenses so I'd be on the chopping block (but then again - my salary is by far highest in my group I know - I actually make more than the top end of salary range allowed by HR and they had to get an exception approved to hire me I found out). I liked the trio I met with - but the outgoing guy was by far the best of the 3 I thought. His successor was good - the new supervisor (my boss) was younger and harder to read - didn't seem to have alot to add - but they may have been just been the 2 seniors taking the lead in talks.

I've turned down jobs paying this level already for a few reasons - extended travel, management just seemed to be throwing numbers out there hoping to land someone and then would try to continue to recruit cheaper talent in hopes of replacing me eventually or just an overly bloated company that I am sure will be cutting in 5 years unless the market stays overly competitive. This one though is a bit different - tiny company, good opportunity - and lets me basically write my own ticket. Not having to deal with so many coworkers who are more clock punchers than actually engaged employees would be nice - and it allows me to work/mentor with newer people (something I was promised at this job - but have yet to really see much of - more me stepping in to do others jobs and catch them up because they just do not want to work).

In a way I feel a bit bad as I feel a loyalty to the current job - but then I remember loyalty isn't what corporate America is about. Moment they could find a 25% savings and hire someone new to do my role as effectively - I'd be on my ass. But this stupid job market - no one wants to work and those who do and work effectively at a high rate are simply the most sought after they have ever been. Probably should be taking the fattest check possible and tossing that extra $$ into retirement savings. At 49 - its not like I will get the chance to do this again for the next 20 years - save my ass off for 5-7 years and make up for prior savings mistakes and maybe I do alright in the end.

 

Life is short and there are no guarantees for a tomorrow. Take a chance and grab what you can while you can? WTH?. Good Luck!

 

I would usually say stay, but if this new company gives you all the right feels and check all the boxes you would ask for and some, maybe make a change and move over?
I am kinda in the same boat, however, it is within the same company, I am barely at my position one year (come Nov) and one of my higher management asked me if I wanted to move over to IT, which was something I wanted to do for a while, and being non-IT related, it is hard to get a job offered for what it is worth.
I mean, I told the management I am all ears to listen but no commitment.
Sounds like you are further down that path than I am, like I mentioned, if it all checked out, go for it.

 

As a hiring manager and someone who just took a pay cut (ended up not being one) to switch to a better work life balance, I would recommend you go with what your heart is telling you. Money is fleeting, but always a great thing to have. If you are happy where you are, then I would stay. If the new role creates more home life, I would switch and enjoy the pay. Gone are the days of being loyal to be loyal, and so are the days where this isnt expected.

If it were me, it would 100% come down to how much time I got to spend with those I care about. I type this sitting at a customers warehouse where I am being fully taken care of and all expenses are being covered for the first leg of my trip out west. I work remote and answer the call when needed, which has been a couple months since the last call.

 

After almost 40 years on the market, I have learned a few things. Do what is best for you and yours. Remember that the grass may look greener on the other side of the fence, but that depends on the direction of the sun. And, finally, honor, loyalty and respect runs only one way.....your way. If your current or future bosses/companies had to dump you.....they will without blinking twice!

I hope it all works out for you. I would Google the new company....I used to use Glass Ceiling (I think it is called) and see if you gain more information about the person leaving, company, etc. It is hard to gain much with the current state of worker attitudes and work ethics, but it may help you get more of a feel.

Best of luck!

 

Are you hiring?
hehe....J/K but yea, your job sounds like a dream.

I echo the part about what matters the most.
Because mine might be different, my wife and my kids and my Tundra (in that order, yes) are my life.
Nothing else matters more.... If my job can have me home most of the time that I am able to walk them to school bus stop and meet them there at the end of the day, consider me agreeing to the job....lol

 

**very quietly, Glassdoor**

 

It has been a while...lol

 

We actually are, but not for roles as.... freeing... as mine.

I 100% agree. i chased that dream, built that home, got that title and lost it all in the name of progress. Now, I value the time with loved ones more than anything. If I had this job before i probably would have gotten divorced anyway, but I will never know. Now, I just thank God every day I am home working on myself, my brand and my new version of life. I wouldnt trade it for the world. Love your priorities! Best of luck in your journey as well!

 

Thanks - yea this is a tough one

current job - I like, but honestly I’m paid 110% of the max allowed range for my role - I’m overpaid for what I do and it’s boring. I could certainly move up - but even then it’s not like I’m not overpaid and it’s not like I’m impossible to replace - just difficult due to lack of applicants. Downside - on a team of 6 - I work with 2 complete dead weights who I constantly have to clean up after (technically or my job - but given my experience/supervisor who could care less - it falls in my lap to do my supervisors day to day role frequently). It’s a bit insulting knowing someone makes 80% of what I do - but literally does not log in to work for days at a time (job is supposed to be 9-5 - M-F) - I’m all for giving chances - but after 8 months - I say your time is up.

new job - I would be much more of a “unicorn” - finding people with my skill set is hard. But it’s also a harder job. Do I want to give up the easy life so quickly ?

One thing annoying me about new company already - so my offer is “pending” verification of references. Yea - they are calling references I provided. Now I’m fine with it - but of course it’s 2023 and former employers are very hesitant to say anything (good or bad) for liability concerns. They are aware of this and just asked for 5 names/phones of coworkers - I gave them but some are out of town already. To me - if you’ve talked to 2 or 3 - and all say good things - your good. Hell - getting 5 references to call you back is a miracle - much less getting them to say anything beyond dates of employment and pay when they work in management. Just feels like a “stall” tactic for some unknown reason. Like saying”I’ll take it” then coming up with excuses of why you want pay immediately. Is it fear of missing out without having the appropriate approval from the money men - is it trying to see if you can haggle a little on price when you know your just in a weak negotiating position or what ? It’s games like this that turn me off real quickly.

 

Boredom is a real thing when it comes to feeling fulfilled at work. I am currently working as I send this to you, so I get it. That said, I find lots of fulfillment in what I do and I do not want more money to do more work. So that is a completely personal decision.

The references thing is becoming more popular among hiring managers as companies try to combat the "bad hire" plague taking place today. they dont understand that loyalty is dead and money talks. So if you are not going to provide the culture, you better provide the money; but even then, it is not enough. So i wouldnt sweat that too much, although 5 is excessive from my perspective. I would have, and I have, just tell them no. Here are the names I will provide and I can justify why I will not provide more. this is especially understandable at a time where you are not actively looking for a role.

Anyway, keep us posted and dont overthink their hiring process. It very well could be a stall tactic while they run background and what not.

 

So based on your above, I would say leave the current job, I hate dead weight and/or people that just don't care/work and still get paid.
However, can't you get the new job to offer you in black and white? Not sure if that is job security or what, but at least if you need to take them to court, it is not like you didn't do you part on it....
I would be very careful on the new company to get lined up properly before handing in your two weeks at the old job...

 

I resigned from my 6 figure salary last February because too much red tape, inaction on addressing personnel shortages, and they asked me to start traveling extensively again. Nope! My new job is a smaller company, smaller, but comfortable, salary, and a much better work/ life balance. I have complete autonomy. I can tell my boss I'm working from home, take a half day, or days off as needed. Obviously, I don't abuse this and am in the office most days by 0700 and gone by 1530. Lunch break? 30 minutes, 1 hour, whatever. My boss doesn't care as long as I'm getting the work done.

 

Still on hold - pending a 3rd reference confirmation.

again - strange to me - they are running reference/background AFTER extending an offer - but without making a salary offer. Just seems odd to me I guess - don’t you usually make the offer FIRST and contingent upon successful background.

The reference thing - I mean I’ve given them 10 names - they need one more to pickup a phone and call back. Unfortunately some people are just out of office this week with the upcoming 3 day weekend - and I’m sure some are just wary of giving referrals. I mean looking at things like LinkedIn for endorsed skills seems much more modern to me - but what do I know.

 

They haven't offered a number? That's strange indeed. But your original post says "more money" or was that just from the interview they indicated that?

 

No official number I should say.

At the very start of talking to a recruiter - the inevitable “How much are you expecting” came up. I was clear and honest - I make X and for me to leave - I’d need X plus 20%. Not to be greedy or anything - just for me to make a move - it’s got to be something that I could not possibly get from my current job within 5 years without moving out of my current role.

Also said that’s starting - based on limited local travel - if it’s more travel - it likely will be a higher ask. So they know going in my “lowest price” - but haven’t made their formal offer. Likely to be some negotiation of course - but if for example they offered exactly what I was making or a few % more - I’d just so no thanks and walk away.

 

Subbed for results.

I have noticed similar funkiness going on in the job market so you aren’t the only 1.

people are weird and companies are too

 

It’s been such a weird transition in my industry the past 2 years.

My prior job I went to and said I want 1 years f 3 things - more money, opportunity to relocate or give me a lesser raise and begin allowing us to buy pickups as corporate vehicles (we got a lease allowance - and can buy out at lease turn in at end of term ourselves if we wanted - the pickup thing has been around for years as we were limited to cars/SUV including full size SUV for years) - my lease was up but I had ultra low miles so I could literally buy and resell my car to a local dealer for 5k profit or more in a day.

They came back saying “we’re working on it - stick with us and we promise a raise and title change” - after a year of this line - I walked. Thought I’d never leave that place - but sometimes promises upon promises just get old.

Walked out to discover the industry had changed dramatically. Places were BEGGING for workers - where I was making a comfortable living before - I found places offering 50-75% more right from the start. Of course a lot of these were because they had bad track records/management.

I also had the good fortune of being relatively young (49) in a field that was filled with people a decade or more older than me. COVID took its toll - a lot of these people decided to hang it up in COVID and the industry has been lax in hiring/training for a decade or more. All about cost cutting for a decade and it not employees in the ass HARD. So when you need someone fast - and can get people who have 10+ years of career ahead of them and are ready to start working from day 1 - not needing a year of training invested in them (only to hope they don’t realize how stressful the role can be and quit or get poached away the moment they are serviceable) - you evidently bid like crazy.

Networking helped me a ton - I knew alot of people going in and when word was out I was in play - I had my share of suitors who knew my reputation and work ethic. It’s how I landed my current job - a new guy took over the team and our paths overlapped briefly 7 years ago (by like a week) - but he remained tight with his old team that I worked for 2 years and after we talked briefly and he did his due diligence on me - I had plenty of people he trusted signing my praises.

A decade ago we heard stories in the industry of consolidation and outsourcing every month. Even today we had a big player cut 11% of staff - but the majority of that 11% are support staff and the same people they outsourced jobs to a decade ago - they realized paying people 60% of what they were paying people like me for was only yielding workers who could do 50% (or less) of the job - and when labor markets get tight - it’s better to have a lower headcount with employees who can do more than trying to fill your ranks with call center type seat fillers who turn over 100% a year.

Anyway - heard yesterday everything is complete and my package goes to the companies board to review/determine and approve. Guessing this is why the backwards handling - once you hit a certain amount it requires more than just HR review. Supposed to meet tomorrow morning. Wait and see - still I’m really thinking of staying where I am - a relatively new team and maybe we can build something special. At a point - you gotta believe in something and take your chances. Sometimes it pays off not chasing the biggest paycheck. I’ve followed that philosophy for 2 decades now and I’ve been relatively happy until recently.

 

I think your head is straight and clear at this point. Staying would also give you a chance to build your legacy as well as name. But I worry that if the team is half dead weight then I am not sure how that's gonna work in your favor if they allow you to make the call on letting people go and fill it with more capable people.
Either way, I think you will be happy with what you want. Just make a decision and move on. Don't look back.

 

Wow - interesting day today on both fronts (offer and current job).

So on the offer front - it came in about where I saw it increase of 15% and cash bonus (there’s a yearly bonus program but I won’t qualify since I won’t be there with the exception of the last few months of 2023 so they will match me what I would have made if I was there every day of 2023). It’s an opener - and feel free can get another 5% easily and a few extra paid days off too. I’m just plotting my counter demand - because you always counter unless the deal is too good to risk blowing up. I already ask for a new Tundra as company car - unfortunately was told that was a no go (cost and if they buy me one - the fleet manager would probably quit after hearing a few dozen workers complain they weren’t getting new trucks - I get that of course. Maybe I just ask for enough in pay and buy my own damn truck). Typically I have fun with the demands - and remind them little things are sometimes more important than cash - a few added vacation days for example and the ability to use them guilt free - nothing like working 60 hour weeks for a month to catch up because you took 3 days off the month before.

The current job -all I can say is someone picked a shit week to start bitching and complaining. Started when our group had a walk off earlier in the week - so everyone’s workload increased (always fun) - then there was a higher than anticipated workload (our work was up over 50% this week between the 2). That in itself not unusual and not typically something I’d complain about - it happens.

Then management decides to come down all hard ass on my boss and saying f things don’t improve - heads will roll. So my boss calls everyone individually and in a team meeting saying we need to do more. We talked a while and I reminded I’m doing as much as I possibly can - saying do more ain’t happening as my 12 hour days are already packed. So I get the “I know - but my boss says” - and I just reminded them that in general it’s a tight market for talent - and cracking the whip might not be a smart choice without already having a backup workforce waiting somewhere - with one just walking - if one or 2 more high performers suddenly left you’d be screwed for the foreseeable future with no replacement in the pipeline and demanding customers (didn’t say I personally was thinking of walking - just in general how we can’t afford to take another hit as a company). Made it sound like they had plans in place and people ready to go. I’m going to bring up just some general questions Tuesday I think on future plans/what’s the next year hold for me - and hopefully he has the right answers. Today was kind of an eye opener - if they think they can go it better/cheaper - I might just need to let them demonstrate that and take my ass elsewhere.

 

As I mentioned in my post. It runs one way.....from you towards the job NOT the other way (most often).

My job was paying $5k bonus' for coming onboard because we were bleeding staff. The tenured staff were being given additional duties without OT approval. Some tenured staff had to work after hours just to keep up with the additional work only to find themselves in a disciplining position for working OT without approval. The newbies were quitting within 3-4 weeks after training saying that the pay did not match the massive work taking the bonus with them when they quit.

Management changed the bonus structure by adding a signed contract of 12 months of work or the reimbursement of any bonus would be required. They still were bleeding people. The tenured staff finally got wind of the circus and one by one they decided to retire or leave for other positions. I was in a position where continuing to work for me was pure icing on my cake. One day when I found myself in a position where I couldn't work due to illness, I was hounded by management when I would return to work because staff levels were down and work was building up. Not....how are you feeling.....do you think that you will survive after your hospitalization. I eventually returned and requested a meeting with my supervisor....My supervisor (Junior in age to me) later told me that I never request a meeting, so he suspected something was up.....he said that he thought I might be quitting. He was right, I explained my position and he offered me a pay raise to stay. I politely declined and put in my 1.5 week notice to separate. He offered to sweeten the pot, but I held firm.

I ended up leaving 3 years shy of my 40th year. It has been a year and 3 months since I left and my position went unfilled for 8 months and then filled twice afterwards. The current replacement is struggling based on some calls from my networking contacts who have called for assistance. The BEST decision that I made.....

It seems like you are in tuned to the lifeline of the current place and maybe your potential place. I am sure that you have received plenty of advice to place you on the right track. I wish you only the best!

 

Just an update - in short - I've accepted.

Biggest concern was who I'd be working with at new job - confirmed yesterday that changed and I would be reporting direct to the Sr manager (who I liked) - also got a little bump in sign on bonus.

Biggest reason though was the current boss - so after asking for 5 minutes to talk a week ago and a week of being ignored - I took the hint. I mean - I get everyones busy - and with back to school things are going on outside of work too for some. At the same time - if you can't give 5 minutes of your day to the person handling all the overflow you are getting and keeping shit from piling up on your plate and dealing with situations for you before they blow up and hit your managers desk - its not likely to get BETTER anytime soon. Just gracefully bow out - say thanks but I gotta go and let them deal with the fallout.

 

Congrats and hope you will be happy at your new position.
I will be starting my own hunt soon, got played dirty today and I am done.

 

I have turned down a lot of jobs in the past because they didn’t pass the smell test. Something was too good to be true or I got a suspicious feeling and almost always that proved to be correct.

I took a leap of faith in may and left a job that I was at for 15 years and a setting that I was in for 25 years…..and everything has improved. My work life balance, pay, stress level, health, etc have all improved. I spent a ton of time as a manager telling people “don’t stay somewhere just because it’s comfortable” and had to look in the mirror and take my own advice. I would have been content staying where I was but I wanted a new challenge (and a better paycheck with more balance).

That said, I needed to feel secure leaving a job that has the ultimate job security……so I asked for some security in return. My position is a newly created position based on my expertise and a product of an annual budget so I didn’t want the position to be cut in a year or two. They’ve given me that.

So if all things are equal, good feel, better pay and balance can be achieved despite the more challenging environment, I say bet on yourself and go. It’s. It like you’ve fully invested at your current job with limited time and there seems to be upward mobility at the new one as well.

edit: just saw you accepted; CONGRATS!!!!

 

Wow! Quite the rollercoaster. Good luck!

 

You could let your current employer know that you received a job offer with 20% increase in salary and see if they offer you a raise?

 

I think OP's issue is not just the pay difference, but the workload and people that he has to work with.

 

Exactly - it’s not just about $$

I could tell them - but if you don’t answer the phone - it’s really hard to deliver that message.

Sometimes - it just makes sense to walk. The added pay is just a bonus. Loyalty shouldn’t be a thing in business - unless it’s a 2 way exchange.

 

Who you work with is huge!