Any concrete specialists, need some advice

I'm pretty handy when it comes to home improvement stuff, but for some reason this potential project has me second guessing myself. Any tips, tricks, or advice on how to fix my concrete steps that have settled over time and cracked?

 

Seriously, this is not anything to fix. Bust it up into manageable sized pieces and get rid of it. Then do it right.
Compacted fill
Edge turn down at least 16”
Reinforcement
Tread edge guards

 

Trying to further my knowledge not doubting you. But what makes you say this is unfixable? This damage was done over 15 years time, that's what makes me think it's not a huge deal. I'd like to know your thoughts though.

Erosion was a bit of a factor and the drainage issue has been fixed. I removed all the dirt that filled this semi-circle to evaluate the damage. Also removed most of the dirt you see missing from underneath the concrete to get a better look if they were reinforced or hollow steps.

I should have snapped some before pictures to paint a better picture of what truly happened. I just thought it would be a simple fix so I removed all of the dirt between the two sets of steps and the when I evaluated it that's when I got cold feet.

 

I'd also recommend busting it up, compacting, and a new pour. You can make up your own forms and have a yard of concrete delivered for less than one might think. Scree with a 2x4 then get hand trowel it.

 

Fair enough;
I can see in the pictures that there is no reinforcement, no thickened edge and no “decent’ sub grade.
You can patch it, you can slide the pieces back together, but why? You just end up with a patched, broken poorly made piece of bad work

 

I appreciate your thoughts. Would it be better to talk about each set.of steps individually? Or do you think it's the same diagnosis for both? The top picture where the crack is closest to the steps looks like the easiest to fix to me. In both situations it appears to me that the steps settled/sunk/whatever you wanna call it about an inch or so at the bottom step. I went into this project thinking I could lift them up, add some support underneath (whether it be more dirt, concrete, or rock) and then set them back down. Thinking this process would eliminate/close the crack up and all that would be needed then would be a patch/seal job. The bottom picture I was thinking by lifting from the bottom step it would then have an opposite action on the middle of the slab above it and push down effectively closing the gap up top on the far right

 

It’s all about the ground underneath it. It should be tightly compacted, stable, and have erosion control / drainage. Then the concrete merely becomes a veneer. Lifting and trying to fix the ground beneath it will be an exercise in futility in the long term. Removal, remediate, then redo the concrete. Not sure how long those steps have been there, but most modern concrete has fiber in it now to resist cracking and add strength. Many will not use mesh or rebar for smaller jobs like this anymore if they did before.

 

Take out the entire sidewalk and do the whole thing correctly or else you run the risk of fixing this piece and then when the dirt freezes and moves your going to be fixing another piece. Best to not go through the expense of renting a plate compactor, hammer drill, and having redimix delivered multiple times.

 

If you want good results for an inexperienced diyer maybe you should consider pavers, bricks, or stone.

 

Is this for a house you plan to sell down the road? If so get rid of it & start over & pay attention to drainage, compaction & reinforcement. Looking at it from a potential buyer’s point of view, if you ‘patched’ a sidewalk that actually needed to be replaced what else have you done inside of the house to get by?

 

Might check for concrete lifting/leveling contractors in your area to see about getting an estimate/determine if it’s repairable. From the pictures it looks like the lower slab scribbled green settled and is what needs lifted, lifting only the stairs will mess up the first step riser height.

 

So I have to do some similar removal. Is it better to rent a concrete saw and cut it into sections or make a run at it with a jackhammer.

 

Depends on what you are trying to do, if mending you don't want to ruin the good areas with the hammer vibration. If very thick, a saw ain't going to get deep.

 

I was a concrete superintendent for more than a decade, before getting promoted. PM me if you want any more information. Really, everything you need to know, has been said.
I once had to lift a pair of mechanical equipment slabs that already had the boilers on them. They weighed about 20t without the boilers.

 

This is a classic example of trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Tear everything out and rebuild properly.

 

I do like playing with power tools...

The wife and I just purchased the house a couple years ago and we are starting to make improvements, this was the beginning of a major landscaping job I am taking on.

 

Failed subgrade. Demo out the concrete and remove 24" of dirt below, recompact to 95% compaction with jumping jack whacker, and reform/repour steps. Put 4" of sand below the steps or base rock prior to pouring.

Like everyone said - tear it out, do it right.

 

Would that apply against a foundation as well? My cement patio collapsed and now there a 15 degree tilt towards the foundation. I was going to try and cut the patio up with a concrete saw.

I’m piggybacking on this thread since you’re all in here.

 

An old guy taught me a trick with the diamond blade and skill saw thing. Fill a gallon jug up with water, punch a 16 penny nail near the bottom. When you’re ready to cut, pill the nail out and move it along with the saw. Now you have a wet saw to keep the blade cool and less dust. You can adjust the flow of water with the cap on the jug. It does make a sort of muddy mess, but no dust all over the place. You’ll need to clean the saw but you don’t need to worry about the brushes in the motor getting messed up with the concrete dust.

 

Gonna echo chamber: rip it out and do it right.
I helped my husband rip out his old concrete half-assed porch and slab from the prior owners that had cracked and sank towards the foundation. It was the first thing you saw walking into the house every day and we’re both builders so it was absolutely maddening. Rented a masonry saw and hacked it into managable pieces that my tractor was able to haul out.


If youre doing a huge landscaping project having a patched uneven walk and stairs is going to most likely stick out like a hammered thumb. If youre going to do it, do it right.

 

Another reason to do demolition and start again from the beginning is your stated plan of an overall hardscape upgrade. This will allow you to add accents like texture, design or colored concrete that you can incorporate into your overall plan

 

Personally, I would do something with some various colors and textures of pavers/stepping stones and incorporate natural colored gravel as fill between fairly large gaps to lessen overall costs and create a unique overall appearance. Basically some sort of repeating pattern over the length. If you must include steps, you can build a solid base underneath with cinder blocks and face it with retaining wall blocks. Much easier to do at your leisure and not be faced with the challenges of concrete such as weather conditions, proper preparation, labor, truck access or pumping, etc.

 

@Hightide does this for a living. Spectacular hardscape design and construction.

 

Being that this is going to be a larger than expected cost for the project I appreciate all the thoughts and ideas. I'm going to have to figure something out. I don't have the pictures uploaded but these two sets of steps are just the bottom (connects to our circular driveway) of what is a 65 foot walkpath to our home. This also includes two more sets of steps as our house is elevated from the street level. I would have to make changes to the entire thing possibly for uniformity. So it's definitely gonna take some bigger planning and budgeting

 

Might consider a wooden boardwalk/staircase as another alternative.

 

Flagstone set in sand isn't terrible either.

 

The 'lipstick on a pig' adage comes to mind. Anything you do trying to save that existing crap will be money and time wasted.

I've recently done 2 concrete jobs in my backyard: a 24' X 4' slab along one edge of my house foundation, and a long curb (with footing) inside the fence separating my back yard from my neighbor's unchecked weed haven. For each, I hired an experienced labourer to help me with ground prep and building forms, and finishing the concrete. For each of the two "pour" days, I lined up able-bodied friends and multiple wheelbarrows after I rented a towable concrete mixer for multiple loads. Was able to reuse some materials used on the forms for the slab, for use on the curb project. And I plan to build 2 retaining walls elsewhere so, for me, I should be able to recoup some money on those projects, by carefully storing form materials for reuse. In your case, you might break down that walkway into manageable distances, so you can re-use the same form materials.

Anyway, saving all I could by purchasing materials and doing labour myself, utilizing mostly free labour (breakfast sandwiches and coffee, still owe dinner at ours when this heat lets up), each project was about $1400.

At a minimum, I think we're all on here in agreement, you've got to remove and replace that section with the cracked stairs. We don't have enough info to weigh in on your entire 60' pathway.

P.S. Near the end of prepping rebar for my curb project (overbuilt, so I never have to do it again), I discovered "pink bar". It's, hmmn... I wanna say,... 5x lighter and 2x stronger... than rebar. And doesn't rust. It doesn't bend (fiberglass?) but is perfect for weight-bearing flat surfaces such as driveways, and I can picture using it to reinforce stairs. Anyway, check it out.