King 2.5 problems

I’ll keep it short for you guys. Purchased king 2.5 extended travel COA and put them on with no turns on the spring which resulted in a smooth ride. Ended up putting on some 32” ridge grapplers and turned the springs to get 2” of lift which now lets you feel every rock and bump in the road. Not smooth. Looking for the 2-2.5” of lift with a smooth ride. Sounds ridiculous but would letting the spring back up and adding a spacer lift give me the ride and height that I want? I’d hate to have to go that route after spending that much on new COA. Maybe different springs?

 

General rule of thumb is not to mix spacers in with [aftermarket*] suspension, rarely does something good come of it. There are probably exceptions to the rule, but I doubt this is one.

Any time you compress a spring, you'll get stiffer response, so it's to be expected, but I'm surprised it's that much. Tagging @alb1k, don't you have a similar King setup? What's your take on this?

 

Spacer is way to go in this situation. You've got a better shock that resists heat soaking and allows for preload fine tuning, and probably rebound control as well, why regret? Yes, preloading the springs will lift the truck, but would make them stiffer and sacrifice comfort - that's a known thing.

 

When you jack up the truck off the ground how much does the wheel drop? Do NOT put a spacer lift on top of those Kings. Do not! It will potentially cause damage to the shocks.

I would recommend swapping out to 700lb springs from the 650s to get the truck's ride height a little higher without having to crank the springs up as much. I personally ran the 650s on my Ext Kings and felt they were a little too soft on my DC, and I went up to the 700lbs and the ride is better. @alb1k did the same thing as me and can report similar results.

Both of these trucks have 2.5 Kings on 700lb coils. The truck on the left has 33's and the one on the right has 34's.

 

@Wmitch352 there's your direct comparison ^^

1st Gen. Double Cab. King 2.5s. And these guys offroad regularly in their trucks. Thanks @des2mtn (truck on the right is @alb1k's, the other dude I tagged)

 

Nope. Otherwise preloading the springs would do the same kind of damage.

 

No, he has a fully adjustable coilover. A spacer on top of that coilover will cause the shock to ultimately become the bumpstop and limit the full range of travel on the coilover. Heavier springs first.

 

Oh man. Are we really going to go here again?

This topic comes up constantly, and someone always comes along and debunks it.

Exactly.

 

@AccuTune Offroad is probably the shop you need to talk to

 

OP, what size lift did the coilover come from the factory? Some companies set the height already to the max. Maybe you adjusted to much.

 

I don't understand this part. I thought King's already provided around 2" of lift over factory c/o's. I don't see why you would need to adjust to fit 32's.

My tires are almost 33" and I never adjusted my ICON's. I clear everything just fine.

 

There are some clearance differences between the Double cab/Sequoia platform and the Access/Regular cab platform. DC/Seq owners tend to rub faster. Seeing the TC uppers, I'm surprised to hear about rubbing here, especially knowing @abcinv's setup, bone stock, with strut spacers, running 275/70/R17 (32.2"), and no rub.

You might've hit the nail on the head, though. I read OP's 1st post as going from 0" lift to 2" lift, i.e. adding 2". but if they were already at 2" lift from factory, and added 2", that could explain a lot here...

 

I think he needs to crank those coilovers back down to factory levels and that will solve his issues. It sounds like he has them maxed out.

He shouldn't have any issues clearing a 32" tire.

 

No, not the spring spacer, but the spacer between the strut mount bearing and upper strut mount. It essentially relocates the strut assembly lower and does nothing to spring compression nor travel.

 

If I'm not getting what you're saying, let me know. But I think you're dealing with the same misunderstanding I fought with. I had to actually see this drawn out to fully grasp it. (spacer setup on left in the picture, obviously, note the square bit above the spring coil)

With the shock tower being physically welded to the frame, tossing the spacer in the mix actually forces the strut further into into the LCA which has a side effect of adding camber, applying more strain on both arms and/or the shock. When you're already lifting, you don't want to add spacers into the mix, bad shit happens.

EDIT: And with the already-excessive load on the LCA in the 1st gen trucks, search the forum for "balljointfail" and you'll find something you may not be aware of on these trucks; non-OEM lower balljoints tend to fail often on the 1st gens.

​

 

Doing anything with the strut height is forcing it into the LCA, which, yes, affects camber. And toe as well, on most of independent suspensions. The top strut spacer does not strain the shock or anything (given the suspension setup can tolerate this, for example 2" on Tundra is fine, 2" on VW Jetta could be too much).

I have top-of-strut spacers in my Volvo for a few years. No problems. The rear suspension is self-leveling Nivomats, which will die if you ride them at improper height. The only thing you want to do is to slacken the suspension links bolts and tighten them on the ground with the new suspension height, so they don't twist the bushings and wear them out prematurely. I do wheel alignment myself, too.

 

@vtl thanks for the input. I ended up calling total chaos and they said that a spacer above will indeed cause damage to the shock like @des2mtn said.


As far as droop. I have not measured it. I can when I get home but I seem to have a good amount of down travel.


I suppose I’ll have to try the 700lb spring which seems crazy. The 650 just feels awful when cranked to 2.5” compared to let up how they came. I’ve always done bilstein ride height adj on my last 3 tundras and they felt great. Slightly different experience here. Not sure what the deal is.


@2006Tundra @FirstGenVol @Shifty I was under the impression that they came preloaded from total chaos as well but they did not. After install my CV angles were straight and hub to fender measurement was same before and after install.


Here is the model #


KNG-25001-138-EXT


https://www.chaosfab.com/product/2000-2006-Toyota-Tundra-UCA-Coilover-Front-Kit

 

Yup. Thanks for making the call to confirm. I trust the manufacturer's input, especially on products specific to our generation.

But I'm also surprised about the point FGV raised above, about tire clearance. If you drop your COs a half inch, does it still ride like shit, and do you still rub somewhere?

 

Like someone else suggested call Accutune and ask them what you want to do. They actually know what they are talking about unlike me. Which is why I’m not giving you advice.

 

Here is a great article from @AccuTune Offroad I recommend you read about this subject: https://accutuneoffroad.com/shock_selection/

I personally think that 650s are too soft on DCs, it looks like you're 4WD too so that's a little extra weight you're going to have in the front of the truck too.

 

... and we've definitely seen how much 4WD vs. 2WD makes a clear difference w/ACs already. AC guys running 5100s w/new springs, same model, are perfectly level with 4WD, but squatting significantly for 2WD. It's burned a few ppl.

So many variables.

 

What air pressure are you running? Your tires look tight for E rated if they are. Try 34 lbs if those are higher.

 

Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

I skimmed through a lot of the suggestions

-No do not add spacers (sounds like you confirmed this already though)
-Adding preload does NOT change the spring rate making the ride stiffer.
-Did the poor ride quality change after you added tires or after you added more preload/lift? What tire rating do you have? This will definitely cause the ride quality you described.
-When we address ride quality issues like this, we always look at the setup first before making recommendations on swapping to a different spring. Most of the time the spring is not the issue. Unfortunately I do not have the shock lengths for that specific model shock, otherwise we would analyze the shock length at ride height and compare that to the shocks overall travel. I imagine you added too much preload, which puts the shock nearly fully extended at ride height. This would result in you topping out the shock much easier. If lowering the lift/reducing preload helps, that is likely the case.
-The compressed length of those shocks are the same as the non-EXT, which is 15.405". If you can fully droop the shock and measure from the center of lower shock bolt to the top of the top hat, I can work with that info. We need to be as precise as possible with that extended length. Or even call King and ask for those lengths would be ideal.

-Swapping springs will not change the position the shock is sitting at ride height.
-King does not claim specific lift heights on their coilovers, and a lot has to do with this exact reason. Some will demand that specific lift height vs set them at the best height for the total travel.


I have another article not yet released, but it will touch on some other discussions about spacer lifts. Here is a quick animation to share on that topic:

 

Is this really what known to happen with these particular struts? I'm hell sure I'm compressing top mount spaced Sachs and Bilsteins (in other applications) till the bump stop is hit and they didn't die yet, after years of abuse. If that's the case, restricting extra suspension travel can be done with shimming or replacing the bump stops with longer once. It still would be my choice vs heavy duty springs. I did HD springs in past, thanks, no.

 

It has and will happen. A bit off topic from the OP's thread, so I wont elaborate. I will share the article in our vendor section when its ready though

 

OP's concern is his ride quality, or lack of it. I don't see how HD springs will help him. Longer springs - yes, but there's a risk of bottoming out the strut on full drop. Anyways...

 

Yes, my response above "-When we address ride quality issues like this, we always look at the setup first before making recommendations on swapping to a different spring. Most of the time the spring is not the issue. "

 

@Shifty @des2mtn @Rubberdown @vtl


Spoke to the guys at accutune. Sounds like the COA should have provided more lift at the setting it came at and that a 700# spring would make it even stiffer. They 100% do not recommend a spacer above the assembly. I’ll give the collar a few more turns to get to an actual 2.5” lift and decrease rubbing. (Right now after measuring I’m at 2”). May just need to suck it up and get used to the rough ride. Crazy to think bilstein ride height adj was significantly smoother than an entire king COA. I suppose the 4wd weight could make a difference as well (as you guys said). I’m open to any other suggestions. Thanks for the input guys.

 

I think what the other guys are saying is if he's got the springs so compressed that the coils are hitting each other during compression then a 700lb coils will give more ride height without as much compression therefore no coil bind.

Most DC and Sequoia owners go with 700lb coils due to the increase weight of the vehicles.

 

I'm still curious about your tires. I can tell the difference between 34 and 36 PSI. Your setup looks like it should be nice. Not a factory ride, though. Seems to me you were happy with the ride when the Kings first went on and if those pictures are current, it does not look to me like you have over-loaded the springs on adjustment. But, as @des2mtn asked, do you know your droop? And PSI?