Should Toyota add Auto 4wd to the Tundra ?

I understand that. I live in Wyoming. I can see all seasons on the road in a 5 mile trip. I still don't want it added because it attracts idiots. NOT saying people that want it are idiots. I'm saying that idiots are prevalent and lots of them thing AWD or 4x4 means "can do anything at speed" because they fail to realize it has nothing to do with stopping in shitty conditions. Can't tell you how many idiots I see going 10 or even 20 MPH over the safe speed limit for slick roads because they think 4WD makes the vehicle behave like it's dry pavement. They wind up causing accidents or in the ditch a lot, and then are angry when they get a ticket for driving too fast for conditions.

 

I know, but I'd still prefer less gasoline on the fire.

 

Most of the guys around here who drive like that are in domestic pickups that predate 4 auto.

 

Yep, there's that group too, but they are usually advocating more ground clearance, louder exhaust, and the ability to drive over big things. They aren't telling the manufacturer to glitz it up with soft things.

This is gonna sound sexist, but women are generally more interested in people than things, so they care less about the things they use and buzzy marketing is highly effective. "Auto 4WD to keep you safe in all conditions." is heard as drive like it's sunny no matter what the roads are actually like. They do not take the same level of interest in the mechanical stuff and don't care how it works, just so long as it works. This doesn't apply to all members of the fairer sex, but stereotypes are usually grounded in some level of truth. Add to that the mass movement of wanting to be a "boss bitch" and feeling entitled to tell everyone else how things should be cuz no man is needed for anything ever, and if they dare disagree they are just misogynist incels and should bow down to their queens, blah blah blah.

Add in the guys that want everything to be super easy for their wives so that they are safe, rather than being willing to teach and help them grow... Or the guys that don't know anything at all about how any of it works and think that you can really have high power, high MPG, high luxury, soft ride, great handling, off road monsters that are tame on the street... These are the vocal group that will demand that a truck be turned into a useless lux-mobile as we see the 1/2 ton market already swinging that direction. "Real" work trucks aren't represented in the 1/2 ton space very much anymore. If you want a "real" truck you have to go HD. That sucks.

Get off my lawn.

 

Wife has been bitching at me about needing AWD for her next car because the shitty winter tires she cheaped out on a few years back (we were dating at the time so I didn't get a say) spin if she floors it from a stop in the winter. Do you think she listens when I try to explain that AWD doesn't help you turn or stop and that good tires help you go? Of course not. I'm just her stupid husband so how could anything I say be right?

I've never felt the need for AWD in a front engine, FWD car but I would also never run without winter tires on any vehicle here. A front engine RWD truck is a different story and I'm not aware of any front engine FWD or rear engine RWD trucks currently on the market that would meet my needs.

 

So, let me ask a question, is your current truck unsafe? Are you unable to drive it when roads are slick? Would adding this "feature" decrease the number of days that you are just 100% unable to travel due to weather/road conditions? Ooooor, do you already use a bit of thinking and analysis to determine that you need to adjust your driving habits to accommodate the changing weather and only stay home on days when travel is unsafe regardless of 4WD being auto or not? The "smarter" cars have gotten the absolute worse people's ability to drive has gotten. The less they have to actually think, the less they do, and it spreads like a cancer.

How many people under 20 do you know that can do math in their head vs having to pull out a calculator? Is it the norm, or is it the exception? Some people have always been bad at math (i'm one of them) but I used to be the outlier. Now I fit the majority of people who can't function without a calculator.

Smarter tech makes for dumber people.

 

60% of the miles I put on my truck are towing and I still appreciate 4Auto. I dont think many people can claim 60% towing with their half tons.

 

Not saying it isn't appreciated. Not my point at all. I was just stating that if it not being a feature would keep softer users from diluting the feedback because they think it's old or outdated to not have it (heaven forbid they aren't the Joneses that everyone is trying to keep up with) then I see that as a benefit. I am not suggesting it isn't useful, handy, or anything like that. Purely saying that by keeping the truck more utilitarian it keeps buyers of frills out and maintains capability due to a lack of demand for the frills.

Businesses don't care about that, though. They are there to make money, and the best way to do that is to appeal to as many people as possible. Having a truck that is less capable but more cushy is a smart business move because if it's capable enough truck users will still buy it, but you also have the appeal for soccer moms, "lifestyle" social media twits, and those obsessed with the latest greatest.

I know I'm in the minority here. I'm the guy that still wishes his little iPhone 4 from a decade ago was still usable. I'd love to just buy a phone and never have to buy another, but that's not the society we live in.

 

yeah because realistically 90% of truck owners aren’t doing truck things. I get it. But i would not buy a Tundra/Sequoia because of the 4 auto issue. I would do it specifically because of the fact that they already have the best full time system.

So the very segment of people they think they are appealing to arnt gunna bite and go elsewhere.

I am on this forum because I do understand that Toyota does things different than the big 3, and probably builds a stouter truck, but there are limits to how much i care.

 

Lol, so from your soap box you’ve deemed folks who want some form of 4A / AWD / Torsen LSD as folks who can’t drive, want to keep up with the Jones’s, woman’like, and don’t use their trucks for truck things?

You must be a blast at parties, lighten up Francis.

 

I liked the AWD/4WD setup on my old Jeep Grand Cherokee, worked really well in the snow.

 

Not what I was saying. See my very next post where I say I can appreciate it. My reasoning for not wanting it was fairly clear and I used hyperbole and humor to illustrate it. You chose to latch onto anything that could possibly be insulting or offensive and applied it to yourself, yet you say I should lighten up?

 

Although I'm in the 4auto camp I agree with this. Trucks aren't trucks any more. They've become the status symbol that SUV's were just 10-15 years ago. I originally ruled out a Tundra when I was looking because I wanted a bench seat instead of some fancy center console. We have 4 kids so I wanted the seating for 6 when we go camping. After realizing that even though bench seats exist in the other brands they are almost impossible to find because dealers don't stock them I added the Tundra back to my list. Oldest just got his license so him or the wife can follow in a car when we go.

 

If I would have to guess it is because the Sequoia is only available in the Hybrid powertrain starting in 2023. Which is also something that pisses me off.


As to the original question.
It is beyond ridiculous that the Tundra does not have a SELECTABLE Auto 4x4.

The transfer case should include 2wd, Auto 4x4 (which IS NOT AWD), and 4x4 with lockers (as an available option).

This is arguably my largest complaint about these trucks.
My 2000 Silverado, 2003 Explorer, 2015 Expedition, and 2015 Suburban, and 2020 Tahoe all have this option. The Explorer only had Auto 4x4 and 4x4 from the factory. This is a downfall so I wired a bypass to the 4x4 module and could run in just 2wd.
While SURE it is not NEEDED neither is a backup camera but they sure do help many times.

As others have stated in certain climates one can from roads that are dry as a bone, to ice and snow covered within seconds.

I have hours on end on the driving pad in my Tahoe both wet and dry along with frequently driving 100+ mph. The Auto 4x4 absolutely adds tons of stability to the truck. It makes handling almost fully predictable. A touch slower in a straight line but add in turns it is much faster.

The other thing I can’t comprehend is why Toyota uses this craptastic eLSD rear end. Holy crap this thing sucks compared to a true LSD.

 

Toyota always drops the ball in some way...

While not 100% certain it will fit, the rear Torsen diff from the F-Sport LX600 will certainly help with the 2WD traction issues.

 

Why all the MFG's are going to rear lockers instead of a good LSD is odd to me. I had a Jeep Liberty with Detroit Truetracs in both axles as well as full-time 4wd and that thing was so good.

 

Except trucks are more capable than ever with more power and higher payloads. Just because it can tow a massive trailer up any grade at 90 mph while your getting your butt cooled and listening to your 1100 speaker audio system doesn't make it less truck.

 

That's true. What I meant and should has said is not "trucks aren't trucks anymore", but "too many people are now buying trucks that aren't using them as trucks."

 

All y'all keep wishing for an LSD, I don't think you actually would want one. At least not on a 4x4 truck that doesn't have Auto AWD.

I had a TruTrac HLSD installed on my truck, and it made driving in the wet and icy more dangerous.
Guess what happens when both wheels spin on wet pavement with a crown? Back end slides away with the slope of the road. Or, how about during a turn? Ready for Tokyo drift? Better be.
And my truck has newer BFG ko2 with the winter rating and a heavy Leer 100XQ cap. Freaking handful in the rain/ice.
At least with open diff, it would just spin one tire, allowing the other tire to help keep straight line stability.
This is especially directed at those who mentioned LSD with full time AWD vehicles, in those cases it is a benefit. I had a SUV with AWD and rear LSD, unstoppable.
And, in conditions where it's ok to use 4WD, the TruTrac HLSD is truly amazing, so much better than when I had open diffs.

I wanted AWD in my next truck because it really helps when turning out from a side street or parking lot into difficult traffic patterns in the winter.

I live in the Seattle area, the roads absolutely suck, a tangled mess and when it's dark and rainy I sure do appreciate AWD. With my truck I must be ever vigilant about turning out in front of and or across traffic because I can't accelerate at a reasonable rate that even a basic fwd car could.

Now, that's not to say the Tundra would suck as bad as my truck, if it has good e-LSD based on abs, and the boost comes on softly, instead of the abrupt torque of my v8, I'm sure I could get by without AWD in the Tundra.
However, I keep going back to the price of the Tundra. I think at the price point it should have AWD of some sort. I can deal with my current truck as it was a great deal and paid off. If I paid $60k+ for a modern machine why tf am I not getting AWD?

 

A full time 4 wheel drive like the LandCruiser would be more reliable

 

After running Duratracs for years and going to KO2’s on both my Lexus and truck I can confidently say that KO2’s are mediocre in snow. I have had so many pucker moments running KO2’s that never would have been issues with my Duratracs.

But for pretty much everything else, I think KO2’s are better.

 

Thanks for sharing that.
I've heard nothing but positive about them, that's why I bought them.
However, I had Toyo MT's and despite them being MT without winter rating, they seemed much better overall and I miss them. Probably going back to them.
The BFG also brought my mpgs down and they seem to have sloppier handling.

 

I voted no. Just sort like being able to choose. Would be nice if was option of AWD or selectable 4WD.

 

I am have had multiple trucks and SUVs with limited slip differentials that are not always 4x4. I have also had multiple high powered RWD sports cars with LSD and a couple with open differentials. I’ll take an LSD all day everyday.
Our trucks have an electronic LSD which works by applying brake pressure. It is loud, noisy and not as good as a true LSD. I have lots and lots of driving time with with all of these options and a true LSD rear end is far more stable and controllable than that of an open differential and or eLSD.
I am wondering if you have ever actually had a nonAWD vehicle with an LSD as what you describe is nowhere near what happens.
Your traction is greatly increased. You mention having to be over vigilant when turning in your truck because you don’t have good traction. With an LSD you just let it rip as you won’t just be spinning a single tire the power and reaction will be instantaneously transferred from the wheel that slips to the wheel that grips.

You realize that the two sides are not locked and are able to spin at different speeds. So the Tokyo drift you are referring to does not happen.
A rear end with LSD is very controllable if you aren’t driving like a complete jackass. But far more controllable than an open rear end if you decide to.

You do realize that is how these systems work you choose. We are not talking having the Tundra be an AWD truck or a Full time 4x4.

We are talking a selectable transfer case that includes, 2wd, Auto 4wd (this is not the same as AWD), and 4wd Hi and Lo.

 

Ok dude, you're completely right.

(I just made all that up)

 

Then how will I do a burnout?

 

Just interesting that our experiences are complete opposites. I have had likely at least 15 different vehicles with LSDs both personal and company.
At no time have I ever thought man I wish this thing had an open differential. And I drive in dry, ice, snow, rain, mud, creek beds, gravel, wet fields, frequently drive in excess of 100mph. Spend a ton of time on the driving pad pushing each one to loss of control.
I can tell you that frequently in the Tundra I sure wish it had an actual LSD. Especially when making a right hand turn on a slight incline with any sort of wetness. That is this trucks absolute Achilles heal. I can take my 2000 Silverado with LSD, crappier tires and a completely empty bed around the same turn as the Tundra without loosing traction.

Though I will tell you the worst handling and tractionless vehicle I have ever had was a 2014 2wd 4Runner. What a worthless piece of crap. Work sent me to the mountains and hollers of eastern Ky quite frequently at that time. It’s a wonder I made it out of some of those places. Swapped that company vehicle for a 4wd Tacoma and was right as rain.

 

LS swap it.

 

No thanks. I like things to work. And all of these computer controlled driving modes do NOT work. If I want 4wd I want it when I want it. I don't want the computer deciding for me, or worse yet, not giving it to me when I want it. You ever watch Matt's Offroad Recovery on YouTube? The number of vehicles that were only stuck due to the "auto 4wd" and other electronic nannies interfering is amazing. Most of those vehicle could have just driven out if it weren't for the auto 4wd or the traction control or the hill decent control, messing everything up.

Even on my old 08 Tundra, I HATE how switching into 4x4 is a crap-shoot. If the truck is not on perfectly flat ground, the odds are pretty good the truck will not switch into 4x4 mode.

Which begs the question.. What the hell is wrong with a good old fashioned lever, that is directly attached to the transfer case, for shifting into 4wd? It always works. It works when you need it, on a hill, in the snow, wherever, whenever. Why did we need to get rid of that? Was the lever too much effort? Do people just really like knobs that much?

I am all for new technology. Just not at the expense of reliability and control.

 

Which is hilarious because the Toyota T-cases are notorious for taking forever to engage 4wd. TFLTruck makes fun of the Tundra t-case in practically every video they've made lately.

Thats the nice thing about having full time mode. Even if you arn't in true locked 4x4 you at least are getting power to 4 wheels which is enough for most situations. Like I have said multiple times in this tread, I almost never actually lock my GX into true 4x4. I just leave it in 4Lo unlocked. And I have gone through sections where I have lifted tires and it still pulls through it without locking.

Also, the clutched 4Auto t-cases are able to engage at any instance because they are just locking the clutch plates. They don't need to mechanically lock. I never wait for my F150 t-case to go into 4hi because it happens as soon as I turn the knob. 4Lo does require a bit of a dance just like any other case.

But I agree to some extent. My 1995 4Runner goes into whatever mode I want at the click of a lever.