Suspension and Tire Upgrades - Keep it mild, or go nuts?

Admittedly, I'm pretty much just a lurker on this forum, but I do check it out a few times a month. From what I can tell, this forum is still going strong - which is awesome. So before I launch into my questions, I figure I should re-introduce myself, and give you a rundown on my rig.



I'm an original First Gen Tundra owner. I go back to the Tundra Solutions days, and when that site kind of fizzled out, I was glad to find this site. It’s been helpful to keep up on maintenance and the very few repairs I've had to do. I’ve actually been a member here for several years, but by the time I got here, I had lots more going on in my life. I also have a few other hobbies and interests, so as a result, I've only posted a few times here. I've met one member in person. Darkness was (is) local to me, and he was kind enough to help me install my Yellow Box - for which I remain truly grateful to this day.

In addition to my Tundra, I've got three other Toyota(ish) vehicles in my household. My daily driver is a Subaru BRZ (aka Toyota 86). My wife drives a 2020 RAV4. I just bought a 1997 Lexus LX450 (aka 80 Series Land Cruiser). All but the RAV4 have been modified, and I'm on the vehicle-specific online forums for those as well. So frankly, it's sometimes hard to keep it all straight in my mind. I am also getting old, and CRS is a real thing - I assure you.



So here I am, looking to tap into the collective wisdom of the group. I realize that people tend to constantly ask a lot of the same questions about suspension setups and tire sizes. I have done a fair amount of searching through the archives here, and this has helped refresh my memory on the Tundra-related stuff. But I'd still just like to confirm that my future plans for my Tundra make sense.



My 2002 AC 4X4 Limited now has 165K miles on it. I plan to keep it forever. For about the past 10-12 years, I have primarily used it as a tow vehicle for my 20' boat, which weighs about 4,500 pounds (boat + trailer). Though it definitely towed fine in bone stock form, it wasn't great on big grades - and there are a couple of them on my route to the launch ramp. So about three years ago, I re-geared with 4:88's, upgraded to a StopTech brake kit, installed 12-hole injectors, and a BAMufflers cat-back exhaust. Keith at Dirty Deeds helped me with all of that, and it has worked out great. The truck is a blast to drive -towing or not. I also refreshed the tired stock suspension and installed Bilstein 5100's. I kept my stock TRD offroad package springs. I think I have the 5100's on the 3rd circlip, so the ride is a little harsh - but certainly tolerable. I also had Hellwig helper springs installed out back, and a Hellwig rear sway bar. Even though it wasn't really needed for the mild lift, I had a diff drop installed as well. I am running BFG KO2's in 265/75/16's on Mickey Thompson Classic II's - which are an 8" wide wheel with 4.50 inch backspacing. the K02's are getting a little bit worn out now, and could use replacing.

Having just acquired a solid front axle rig, I'm not looking to turn my Tundra into an anything like a dedicated off-roader, but I have taken it on mild trail runs, and it works great for that. I also think the Tundra's 31's look absolutely puny next to my LX450's 35's, and I have plans to go to 37's on the LX. Since my Tundra needs new tires, and I'm already geared for bigger, I thought maybe I could move up to at least 33's. 285/75/16's would be great. It sounds like some people are able to run 285/75's on a mild 2-2.5" lift, but not sure whether they had to do any fender trimming or pinch weld mods. I have not done any massaging of fenders or pinch welds. But I'm not opposed to doing that, if necessary.

Meanwhile, I've been thinking about trying to improve the ride quality a little. As I said, it's tolerable - but with the 5100's on the 3rd circlip, it is a little harsh. Swapping out the stock TRD coils for OME 2885's and dropping back down to the first circlip seems like it could be a relatively inexpensive way to improve ride quality without going too crazy. It sure would be nice to just be able to make that one simple change, and be able to run the 285/75/16's. Would that be a bit too optimistic? Spending a little more to do the job right is certainly not out of the question. I realize the could be some “while you’re in there” items to address at this time as well. The truck is now 20 years old, and other than replacing the shocks and front sway bar end links and installing the diff-drop, the front-end is all-original. That said, there isn't any noticeable slop or drivability issues, and it's not making any noises. About the only thing I see is that one of the CV boots has a very minor leak. But maybe it's time to do some refreshing up there.

Thus, my question... What would you say would be the "right way" to run 285/75/16's's (without rubbing) on a rig that tows a fair amount? Can I go the budget-friendly route and improve ride quality a bit by swapping out my stock TRD coils with OME 2885’s and running them on my existing 5100’s? Or am I crazy for even trying to run 285/75’s? I know the bigger tires are going to impact gas mileage, and I can accept that. But I don’t want major rubbing. Should I just stick to the tried-and-true 265/75's?

Then, let's say I wanted to go a different direction... What if I succumbed to the modding-disease and went a little nuts on this project? I've been reading up about coil overs, UCA's, bump stops, and Solo LCA's, and I know that's a pretty expensive road to go down. But it sure would be nice to be able to swap the 35's off my LX450 onto my Tundra. (Same bolt pattern) I have always been able to budget and save for things I want without putting myself in a financial tight spot. Also, after 16 years of boat ownership, I am strongly considering selling my boat - which would give me plenty of funds for modifications, and I wouldn't need to be concerned about towing any more. My son would love me to go this route as he'll end up driving the Tundra more often than me.

Thoughts?

 

Solutions is still alive………
Welcome

 

Here's what I'd do, as a fellow AC/4WD driver. AC feedback is going to be more critical for you, DC are significantly difference on what you get out of lifts and what rubber you can stuff under after.

I'd take some "before" pics, then drop to the 2nd notch on the 5100s and take some "after" pics, both on flat ground.

Drive around on 2nd clip. Do you like the ride? Do you like the stance, should be a tiny bit of forward rake, maybe 1/2" - 3/4"? If yes, consider going 5100/2884 1st notch. If you liked the old stance better, closer to level, go 5100/2885 1st notch and wait for the front to settle in after.

Most people who are running5100s on 3rd notch, or worse, 4th notch, complain the ride is garbage. Those running the OME 288x on 1st notch with taller springs seem to enjoy the ride more.

Only as a point of reference, and only for 17" wheels versus your 16s:

I've seen two people who supposedly stuffed 285/70/17 under their truck with 2.5" of lift, supposedly no rubbing, except FirstGenVol, he says he rubs frame a little in reverse at full-lock with his coilovers. I have yet to find anyone on stock wheels that couldn't tuck 275/70/17 with no rubbing with a basic 1.5" - 2.5" lift, that includes replacing the strut/shock combo, using coilovers, and even using strut spacers.

There are a couple of AC/4WD guys whose trucks I can link you to pics of that are running 5100/2885. While some settle to perfectly leveled, some appear (to me) to have a little squat in back (reverse rake). Main reason I went 5100/2884. For those AC/2WD folks who install 5100/2885, it ranges from slight reverse rake (0.5 - 1") to pretty serious rake (1"- 2" higher in front).

Not sure if this helps? I spent the last, like, 3 months scouring the various Tundra forums and general internet trying to find as much AC-specific info as I could of ways to mix/match the 5100s, either using factory springs, ARB/OME, Dobinsons, Eibach. I found a good bit of info and feel pretty confident talking through it.

I'd avoid OME strut+spring kits. 5100 is a better option. The pure-OME kits tend to run about 1"-2" higher than advertised on average for AC trucks, depending whether you have 2WD or 4WD, or any extra weight up front like front armor or armor+winch.

 

PS -

Your truck looks awesome. Honestly, the best possible thing you could do is some paint correction. It's as easy as getting some Meguiar's Ultimate Polish on a 6" orange correction pad, wash the truck, claybar the truck, then polish it with a random-orbit DA polisher. My signature has an example, I used a Ridgid random-orbit DA sander that happened to have a 6" hook-and-loop pad from the factory and it worked great. We might've already talked about this, I can't remember.

I had to do mine one panel at a time due to time constraints. But seriously ... night and day difference.

 

In my research, I too found it a little hard to separate the DC-related info on lifts and tire size from the relevant AC info. Your suggestions sound very much on-point, and are much appreciated.

I hadn't heard that all-OME strut/spring kit can produce a higher-than-advertised lift. Initially, that doesn't sound like a con to me. From purely a cosmetic standpoint, I'd love to to have a little more lift than I do now. I'd be bummed if I lost some lift by going with the OME 2884/2885's with 5100 combo, and it really wouldn't be good to get any sort of reverse rake. I already get some sag when towing, even with the Hellwig helper springs cranked all the way down. I think I'd be riding the bump stops for sure when towing if I did anything to produce reverse rake. But like you suggested, I should probably just test it out by adjusting the 5100's down one notch at a time, and see what I get in terms of ride height and rake.

The ability to tune ride height is also why I was initially thinking of going straight to coilovers. But every shop I've talked to has said coilovers would not be the optimal way to go if I keep on towing at all. They are recommending I stick with heavy-duty springs like the OME 2885's for the load capacity. But aren't the springs used in most quality coilovers kits the same (or higher) spring rates?

Though I'm currently rocking the stock bumper, I do have dreams of someday adding an aftermarket bumper like the Brute Force Fab or maybe even ARB (I know it sticks out a ton - but if it's anything like the one they make for the 80 series land cruiser, it's gotta me stout as hell).

Though I've always tried to avoid them where possible, would running a 1.00 - 1.25" spacer help at all to avoid frame rub with 285's?

 

Thanks for the kind words. Those pix are probably a bit deceiving. She is plenty chalky at the moment. I am familiar with the correctability of Toyota single-stage white paint. My LX450 has gotten that treatment recently. I didn't do the work (the PO did for the sale) - but I just bought a DA polisher so I could do the Tundra.

 

It's really frustrating. And I don't think a lot of the lifted DC guys (of which there seem to be 2x or 3x more than AC/RC guys) seem to know about it, so they're very quick to chime in to offer suggestions, with the best intent, but then AC guys end up with stuff like this. Same goes for 2WD vs. 4WD even if your cab is same.

Just to give you an idea of what 2WD AC can expect with the 2885, here's another AC/2WD truck with 5100/2885 (note, it's on a slope, making it look more level than it is): https://www.tundras.com/threads/a-kids-tundra.89748/#post-2414422

Here's that same truck with proper wheels, after settling, that little weight makes a big diff'ce: https://www.tundras.com/threads/a-kids-tundra.89748/page-2#post-2598303

Here's an example of an AC/4WD like ours with 5100/2885 and a cap on the rear: https://www.tundras.com/threads/wha...-gen-tundra-today.2558/page-1378#post-2800692

Yeah, you'd think. Until this happens to you: https://www.tundras.com/threads/ome-3-1-kit-goes-full-extension-with-a-bang-too-fast-why.109151/

I initially thought the same. "Hell, if it's got reverse rake, I'll just toss rear lift and be done!" but ... once you get 3"+ you need to make other considerations, extended links, high-angle boots, possible premature wear and tear, etc. Are you ready for that?

I actually think that's why they're giving "least possible amount of lift for a 4WD double cab, with armor". Unfortunately, if you have no armor, and you aren't a double cab, you get fecked.

5100/2885 should get you in the ballpark of that 3rd link I posted, the green truck. It basically looks very similar to your current lift to me.

I'd consider helper bags, honestly. But this isn't my territory. I helped my dad install helper bags on his 2.5 Gen Tundra to tow his camper, he loves them.

I think if you can afford coilovers, it's probably the best option, and I think there are a lot of people on here that would espouse that. @bmf4069 can post pictures of his A/4WD (pretty sure it's 4WD) with the ToyoTech coilover kit, so you can see the appeareance. It looks great. I think he likes the ride too. Not sure if he's towed. I've used coilovers and bags to lower several prior vehicles of mine in the past, but never lift. I personally love both, they both have their advantages, but I could see a coilover + helper bag setup really kicking ass with towing, frankly.

You need to factor that in. But if you did go 5100/2885, and ended up with a drop in the front, you can always swap your 2885s for 2887s.

I suck with that geometry stuff. @alb1k helped to explain to me the pros and cons in a side conversation. I'd tap him to give input on this Q.[/QUOTE]

 

Possibly 2885's and one notch up if lift is lost?

Sounds like they have a little misunderstanding on suspension. Front coilovers/springs (unless significantly softer than stock) won't really effect towing. Most coilovers start at 600lb rates and go up, which is a touch over stock spring rate iirc.

It's mostly the rear (leafs, sway bar, helper springs, air bags, etc.) that will help or hurt. Airbags would eliminate your squat issue and can be made removable or just run at 0 psi daily.

Spacers would help inner frame rub but at the same time may require trimming of either pinch weld or bumper, as it'll push the wheels outwards from the hub.

 

Can't recommend enough simply using Meguair's Ultimate Polish. Then follow with wax.

My paint was chalked HARD. Like a stick of chalk. Flat as hell.

I did the passenger side of my bed with Meguair's Compound, then the driver side with Ultimate Polish.

They both came out equally shiny at first. But I've noticed the passenger (compound) bed side has haze in a few nooks, started to haze a little.

Everywhere I used polish is still pearly, gleaming, like a nice smile. I used the same methods, with a brand new pad on each side, so it was 100% apples to apples.

Just proves: Buffing compound is overkill. A good pain-safe polish is plenty as long as you're using a med-aggressive pad like the orange pads (most are color-coded). Meguair's Ultimate Polish just happened to be what I used and it worked incredibly well with Griot's orange pad.

 

It's not recommended to go above the 1st notch when using taller (lift) springs for rideability reasons, maybe? It may be supported on DC in some configurations at some vendor sites, but virtually every vendor tells you not go above 1st notch with a spring lift if you tell them it's an AC truck.

Someone has a nice grid/matrix Bilstein put out showing similar.

 

Yeah. I meant try 2885's on bottom notch and if too low go only to the 1st notch.

 

Ah. The bottom notch is the 1st notch to me.

 

I think 'Shifty' just got handed the 'PHM Torch'.
Hallelujah.

 

I don't know how people daily drive billies. I went from worn out (15+ years) fabtec coilovers, to 5100's, to Fox 2.0's. By far the worst was 5100's. I put back on the old fabtecs while I waited for my Fox's to arrive. The Fox 2.0's are in a separate league. I was trying to hold out for Fox 2.5's but they just never went in stock and I got a really good deal on 2.0's. I do not regret it one bit. Skip the billies.

01 4x4 AC

 

Yeah I’ve got 55k on 5100’s and 885’s, and they give the height I was looking for on my DC, but they ride kinda $hitty.

I recently put mid travel Icons on my 07’ Sequoia, and they ride amazing. I will probably run them at some point on my Tundra.

I’m running 3 leaf add a leafs in the rear with Firestone Air Bags with Daystar Cradles and it’s been a good setup for towing.



Before the Cradles

 

This topic just made me realize ... I wonder if @HumbuckerBob ever got his suspension done? Dude had a freaking gem of a truck.

 

Thanks for all the info and suggestions. I cheezed out and just stuck with the 265/75's. Not as beefy as a 285/75 for sure, but I get absolutely no rubbing. I did decide to get a little frisky and went with an MT instead of an AT this time - Yokohama Geolandar MT G003's. Surprisingly, they have very tolerable hum at freeway speeds.

I still plan on making some changes to improve ride quality and I'm looking into airbags to help with the sag when towing.

 

What size spacer would be recommended to gain just a little clearance from the frame? I'm only seeing 1" or larger spacers in 6 X 5.5. Do I need that much? Anyone know of a .5" spacer?

 

You can get spacers custom made in whatever size you want from this site: https://www.motorsport-tech.com/index.html

You can get them made in steel or aluminum, with custom hub bore sizes, custom lug sizes, any option you can think of.

If you want a .5in spacer though, you will have to select the "type 2" spacer when it asks.

 

You can get pre-made spacers also, in sizes as small as 1/4in.. https://www.motorsport-tech.com/4DCGI/clickedRADIOBUTTONonPre_truck

 

Thinner spacers will not have studs, as they are slip on. If running slip on spacers you will most likely need extended studs installed.

 

Those BORA spacers look like they are going to be the ticket. Seems like they are saying the maximum thickness would be 0.25" before extended studs would be required. How difficult is it to get extended studs pressed in?

 

Not hard, usually you can slip them in from behind after hammering the old ones out.

Lisle makes a stud install tool that makes it easier.

 

It's not difficult at all. You can do it yourself with some washers and a nut. Just stack the washers the tighten the nut until the stud is fully seated. Be sure not to use a lug nut though. Seating the stud will go well over the lug nut torque specs and probably stretch the threads on a lug nut.

 

The lisle tool has a bearing that makes it way easier than the old washer & grease method, which requires a ton more torque to overcome the friction of the washers/hub/nut.

I highly recommend not doing it the old way whenever possible (ie: not a road/trailside repair).

Also re-torque the wheels after a couple miles and again after 50.

 

When you're right you're right. And you are right.

 

I purchased the Lisle tool, watched a few YouTube vidz on stud replacement, and I think I can handle this job. I just need to take some measurements of the tire to fender lip distance in order to decide how thick of a spacer to order, along with some extended studs. I see that studs come in various lengths, and the guideline is to have at least seven full turns of the lug nut on the stud after installing the spacer. Any idea how much exposed thread beyond the spacer that might equate to so I can order the right sized studs?

 

Just a note on the studs, and maybe it's because of the rotor vs. drum thickness, but the front studs and rear studs are different.

Doesn't answer the question, but this info may help you get to the right place for one point you may not have known before.

 

I didn't know that, so thanks - very helpful.

 

I'm not sure what the thread pitch is on 1st gen tundras but assuming they are metric sizes, all you have to do is take the pitch measurement and multiply it by the number of threads you want exposed. That will tell you in millimeters how much thread you want.

For example, the 2nd gen tundra has M14x1.5 lugs. If i want 7 full threads exposed, that would be 7x1.5 which gives me 10.5mm, or between 3/8 and 7/16in.

And i would do at least a full 1/2in or more just to be safe. 7 is the minimum. 10+ is better.