Traction Control Solutions

TlDr: traction control is limiting off road capability, looking for solutions. Looking for factory reliability and maximum off road capability.

Mostly stock truck. 2” spacer lift (stock for TSS trucks), 33” Cooper STT Pro tires.

First post here. Long tone GM truck owner, first time Tundra owner. I’ve gotten to know my 16 Tundra TSS Off Road over the last year and a half. Bought it expecting legendary reliability and off road performance and have been rewarded… for the most part.

However, I have found a couple weaknesses and I’m pretty sure they stem from a traction control system that can’t(?) be disabled.

Specific scenarios include sand, big rocks, and mud. This truck gets used for its off road purpose. Although it does better than anything I’ve driven with unlocked differentials, I have been sabotaged by what can only be an underlying traction control system that isn't getting fully disabled.

Before I get in too deep, I THINK I understand the limits of ATrak, how to punch buttons to disable the traction control, and how the 4lo/traction control relationship works. Feel free to school me on this.

I’m looking for a way to increase my off road capabilities without seriously limiting my streetabilty or reliability. I still want to drive this truck 1200 miles one way to off road into my hunting areas, not just build an off road rig. Needs to be a fair balance.

1st scenario; soft sand dunes at Silver Lake State Park in Michigan. Climbing steep dunes of soft sand. Truck seems to do great until the last 1/4 of the incline where traction is irrelevant and RPM and momentum carries the day. Despite punching buttons to disable trac control, the truck will only build power until traction is completely lost. At the critical moment, the engine cuts RPM, eliminates wheel spin, and leaves me sitting still where it should have easily powered through. 4lo isn’t a realistic option here due to speeds and wheel spin needed to reach goals.

2nd scenario: Rock crawling west slope Colorado rockies. Got jammed up in 4hi, nannies disabled, where all 4 tires got caught in crevices on bigger rocks compared to tire size. Not a big deal in an uncontrolled vehicle, you should be able to easily climb out with some RPMs, but the traction control(?) would not allow any wheel spin at all. Put the pedal to the floor, the truck would remain just over idle RPM, zero wheel slip, essentially parked. Got the truck in 4lo and powered out.

3rd scenario, sloppy mud West Michigan. Similar to the sand scenario. I had a chance to take several runs at a sloppy mud pit. At this point I wanted to test the traction control. Again, despite disabling nannies, the truck limited my RPMs and left me stuck where some wheel spin could have given me a chance.

I’ve read forums, punched buttons, pulled fuses, and prayed to various gods to give me control of my truck.

Can you guys point me in the right direction? I’d like to have complete control over the truck in some situations.

I’m looking for a balance between totally disabling everything and mechanically locking differentials and leaving it at the current “good enough”.

Although it’s not a daily driver, I do need to drive it 1200+ miles one direction to my off roading destinations. Fuel economy (for what it’s worth) and reliability is a serious consideration.

Is there some way to keep the good parts of ATrak, and get RPMs and wheel spin?

Is there a tune, or some secret combination of buttons to disable all of the traction control at will?

Sorry for the long post, but I’m at the end of my research and seeking answers!

GB

 

I'm familiar with the limits you've described. My understanding is that the issue is actually in the ECU and a tune like (https://www.hptuners.com/vehicles/toyota-tuning/) will allow you to remove the rev limits that cause the issues mention.

 

Thanks! Stopped by their site. Looks like what I need is on back order. Do you have any experience with of any of their competitors?

 

Text loses a lot, so please don't think I'm being condescending or a jerk. I'm low on sleep so I am just trying to illustrate and clarify.

For the Colorado bit, low speed off road should be 4lo to keep the transmission temps down. It sounds like if you had it in 4lo for that one you would have been ok to start with. 4lo fully disables things, so it handles the off road stuff better.

Now, for the turning off of nannies. I've seen lots of threads and videos that tell you how to do this, and about half of them miss the last step. Just to make sure you've got all of it I'll type it out. I only do this because you didn't provide the info and I want to make sure you have all of it before modding/tuning to try and achieve something that you might just be missing one part of.

For full nanny disengagement you have 3 button presses that must be done with the truck running and in park. You can't do this on the fly, and you have to do it every time you restart the truck.

1. Truck running, in park, press the Traction Control button once. This will illuminate the Auto LSD dash light.
2. Press and hold the Traction Control button until the Auto LSD, Collision avoidance, and Vehicle Stability Control (same icon as the Traction Control button) lights illuminate. The in dash screen will say VSC Turned Off, Pre-Collision Brake System Unavailable You'll be holding the button for approximately 5 seconds for this to occur.
   • 
     
   • 
     
   • This is where most people and many guides end stating "traction control is off", but there is a final step.
3. Press and hold the Traction Control button again. This time it will illuminate the Pre-Collision Braking light, the VSC light, and the same "VSC Turned Off, Pre-Collision Brake System Unavailable" message will appear, but instead of the Auto LSD light being illuminated you will instead have TRAC Off light illuminated.
   • 

After going through these steps it should allow full wheel spin for sand, mud, or snow. This is the best you can get without modding or tuning, and it should handle the scenarios you've presented while keeping your truck completely drivable for regular use.


Here's a video that I grabbed the images from and the process in case text fails.

https://youtu.be/AOVRWYK5qCQ?t=38

 

I just ran out to my truck to check, because my dash is setup different and I don’t remember getting the same feedback he’s getting in the video.

My truck has a little different interface, but it’s the same operation. It’s slightly different when in 4hi, you only get two options: disable Atrak with one push, and disable “everything” with a second push and hold.

I’m confident that I’m going through the right motions when it comes to button pushing. Hell, I’ve even pulled fuses for ABS and traction control to test it and still get limited on engine RPM and in turn, wheel spin.

I’m leaning towards we’re on the right track looking at a reasonable ECU tune to get rid of my symptoms.

 

Personally, I don't have any experience with tunes other than having run a BD tuner for a short time. A couple of guys I know and wheel with run HP. It might be worth waiting for. I think they've tried several different things and found this to be the best, if not the only, option for removing rev limits. But, lemme reach out to them and verify.
There are devices out there, I got one from a fellow forum member, that turn the nannies off when you start the truck. When ON I just start the truck and wait 10 sec before shifting out of P and all the nannies are off.
Also, I've seen a guy in Baja destroy his transmission driving in sand 'cause he had his nannies on and overheated the transmission.

 

I offroad my truck alot. Tbh for the issues you are having , traction devices won't help give you wheel speed. Sounds like you don't want more traction from your wheels as much as you just want more wheel speed. Personally I wouldn't want wheel speed to fix those issues as more wheel speed followed by unexpected traction =broken parts , but to each their own. Rock scenario is a 4lo endeavor. Plain and simple. 4hi does not belong in the rocks. For atrac, ive found for it to do its thing well, 1500-2000 steady rpm is the sweet spot. In the sand, are you airing down? Same question in the mud. In my experience momentum breaks stuff and is great if you're doing these things in 2wd, but with 4wd, as much momentum as you're describing isn't really you're friend unless your keen on sending it. Also lots of wheel speed +locker or limited slip, probably will break something. Steady throttle control will usually get you through most situations. If you're wanting to do stuff "pedal to the floor" which you describe, best bet is probably the ecu route for full send driving.

 

I’m aired down and on wide tires in the sand.

I understand what you are saying about wheel speed and unexpected traction. There’s sometimes a fine line between bashing your truck to pieces and completing an obstacle. I also understand the limits of the Atrac and traction aids imposed by the traction control system. Slow and steady is great, till it’s not quite enough.

I use the atrac and auto LSD options regularly with satisfactory results. There have just been a few instances where I needed that “full send” and couldn’t get it despite my efforts. No doubt it’s made that way for a reason!

I don’t necessarily need the capability, but it would be nice to have the option.

Do you have any recommendations or leads for ECU tunes for this direction?

 

I have verified with @osidepunker that an ECU tune can remove the rev limits. He's using something other than HP but recommends "exhausting all other options" before using the tune that he has. I believe @Vizsla has HP. Maybe he'll chime in.

 

Here is the cheat sheet



You probably needed 4 low with one button push to get rid of the power cut. Or 4hi with the 2 button push.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/traction-control-everything-you-want-to-know.21697/

 

Thanks for the graphic! That explains it nicely. I can say with a certainty that for whatever reason there is definitely a power cut everywhere I’ve tried except 4lo and one push.

 

Hey, thanks for the lead! I appreciate it.

 

Bumping this. May make a new thread to address ECU options if necessary.

 

Can we talk about maybe too much rim and not enough tire too?

Looks like a mighty slim sidewall for 33's, not much to air down there.

 

Yeah maybe, but that’s not really addressing the root cause of losing power.

they’re still a 12” wide tire. Aired down to 10psi I didn’t have trouble getting around until I needed that spin to reach the top of steep dunes. It’s not a place you can crawl to with any setup that I’ve witnessed. Though, with the right amount of tire print, power, and the right line, most of the hills aren’t all that tough.

 

Been said already but a tune will definitely unlock what you're lacking.

I have the DAP tune and it removes the governor, improves the shift points (greatly), and adds up to 20 hp. I would never drive this truck without a tune of some sort.

 

Have you ever monitored the transmission temps? Your description of the sand dune driving makes me wonder if too high ATF temp is triggering a limp mode… but you’d probably get a message on the dash

 

Dap's a little easier to get if you're in Texas isn't it?

 

He ships the handhelds out. If they're in stock.

 

I sent a message to DAP. We’ll see what he says! Thanks for the lead.

 

I haven’t monitored it. I suppose it’s possible, but the runs at the steep dunes are short. I really only have the symptoms during that critical period where wheel spin is needed. I can reverse back out and try again without being in limp.

 

That sheet looks familiar

 

You'll probably get better results calling him. He's a one man operation.

 

Read this for some greater understanding of the real issue. https://www.tundras.com/threads/power-loss-offroad.25499/

 

Fantastic. Thanks! Looks like that HP tune is worth the wait.