3rd Gen V8

Read the rest of the sentence that you bolded. Clearly states that it's an unknown factor. No one knows if it will or won't, and the answer to that question WILL have an impact on post warranty value retention.

 

Do you think Toyota did no market research before this move based on what people are asking for and what’s selling? This wasn’t decided in a vacuum. Just because it’s not exactly what you or certain members of this forum want doesn’t mean general public isn’t asking for it.

 

That's a bold assumption as well. If you pulled the EPA/Cali regulations out of the mix, I can guarantee performance of vehicles would go up and there would be many more people excited by that experience. A huge amount of the decisions for vehicle design are made, not by market research, but by bureaucratic mandates.

 

Did market research also tell Toyota NOT to include tow hooks and to design a stupid ass rear bumper with no way to step up into the bed when the tailgate is down as well?

 

This is only half true. Yes, public asked for better MPG (mostly, people that don't understand trucks), also more payload/towing, but sadly the biggest push for more-eco friendly engines is the almighty US of A-green movement bandwagon that is in reality another powermove to get everyone to spend lots of cash on "Green-er" alternatives, granted, V8 will produce more CO2 than the TTV6, but a Corolla will produce a fraction of either one.

What we need is a SCV8 vs TTV6 apples to apples comparison to end this ridiculous debate, performance-wise numbers are already in favor of the SCV8, not MPG mind you.

*edit, found one:


not a lot of info and drag races are... uhm.. not great.

 

I probably wouldn't. I buy Toyota trucks for the capability and the reliability. I will hold out to see how the V6 TT reliability turns out. I'm sure it will be just fine, but in the meantime I will just stick with and enjoy my 2018 for at least another 8 years!

 

Bold assumption? That a company as rooted in practicality as toyota maybe did market research to move out of their trailing market position on a 250+ Billion dollar segment vs just going with their gut. Not that bold and assumption.

If a mass of people agreed with your assessment of the Gen 2 why didn't they buy them?

 

I did buy the gen 2 instead of the gen 3 tho

 

I absolutely think they do market research, but that market research is confined by regulation, and thus cannot be assumed to represent what the consumers actually want. It represents what regulations demand with whatever consumers want that doesn't conflict with those regulations. Assuming that their market research and resulting product is representative of consumer desires is the bold assumption, because it doesn't account for the restrictions that they are required to abide by.

Other companies do market research as well, and they continue to offer V8 options in most of their full size truck lines. Toyota's share of the full size market is not large enough to warrant the investment in multiple power plants, as demonstrated by their elimination of the smaller and more efficient V8 in the 2020 MY. They pursue streamlined production and try to present a product that will satisfy minimums, whereas other manufacturers have models that cover the minimums and also push into some of the extremes in order to appeal to a much greater audience. Look at the extremes of the truck market like the TRX, Raptor, ZR2, Maverick, Ridgeline, and up into HD trucks, etc. and you can see that there is a market for everything. Toyota isn't interested in expanding their truck market. They've said as much.

I gave no assessment of the 2nd gen. Not sure where you are getting that from?

 

Love how this thread has devolved into the usual "V8 vs V6 debate."

I've got it! I'm just going get two of Toyota's old 2ZZ-GE 4 cylinder engines and mount one to each axle. Boom. Problem solved!

It really checks all the boxes:

• Reliable? ✔
• Naturally aspirated for the 5.7l fans? ✔
• Good gas mileage for the 3rd gen fans? The 2ZZ-Ge averages 25-27 mpg so ✔
• Has the ability to be supercharged for the performance guys. ✔
• Can be mated with either an AT or MT. ✔
• Pipe the exhaust from both engines together to get an exhaust note from 8 cylinders. ✔

Guys...I think I'm going to apply for an engineering position at Toyota. I think I just came up with the secret sauce to appease just about everyone! Towing might be a problem, but who buys a Toyota for that anyway? People who tow just buy a Ford F250 or F350, amirite? /s

 

Uh... the title and first post indicate that this thread was started as a V8 vs V6 discussion. Not sure anything has devolved.

 

I think you could have put the 6 speed behind the TTV6 and it would have masked the inadequacies of the transmission. Toyota people didn't get to experience this but Ford had their 6 speed behind the 3.5L Ecoboost for 6 years before they went to the 10 speed and the 6 speed did not hinder that engine at all. I have one now. It never hunts. When your cruising along and need more go, you just push the throttle and the engine has the torque. It doesnt need to start poking around different gears to find it.

I always wondered why they debuted the 10 speed on the 3.5L and not the 5.0.

A 10 speed is more beneficial to making a V8(or diesel for that matter) drive better than it is a TTV6 that has a ton of torque down low(480 ft-lbs at 2400 rpm vs 460@4100 for the 6.2L) and hp up top. The TTV6's torque curve is so broad that having the tight gear spacing is a lot less important.

 

Nah. It devolves (IMO) when it becomes argumentative as opposed to simply answering the question in the OP. Mission Accomplished.

 

Debate and discussion is a fun hobby on this forum. We have so little to complain about on our trucks that we have to fill the time somehow.


Oh yeah, and I forgot, My Dad can beat up your Dad!

 

Totally agree.

 

More carry over from the comment I originally replied to that Toyota is changing vehicles without considering what people wanted and 5.7 PTSD.

 

IDK, but you don't get the chevy tranny jamming rumble from a V6 that you do get from the 5.7L

 

Toyota basically came out and said they weren’t trying to make huge gains in market share with the 3rd gen tundra. They’re just continuing to provide an alternative for Toyota customers that would rather buy a full size Toyota truck even if it may be less capable. If they were truly interested in making it as capable as possible and to be competitive for years to come, they wouldn’t have made it use the same platform as several other vehicles in their lineup that are for very different roles. It would be on its own platform specifically designed to be the best for truck duty and nothing else. They developed a pretty darn good stop gap with the new truck, but it’s certainly not the best they can do. I believe Mike Sweers even stated that it’s not the truck they wanted to build, but had to make their superiors happy by using the TNGA-F platform to ultimately reduce costs and streamline their production.

 

Stellantis is killing the Hemi. The ceo is on record saying the Hellcat will be gone in a year or two and they are replacing the 5.7L and 6.4L SRT with the 3.0L Hurricane.

The 6.2L/5.3L GM V8's are the only viable V8 at this point because they have gone SOOOO far with their displacement on demand technology and direct injection and its at the cost or reliability. They have had issue ever since developing AFM/DFM. Why GM even has the 5.3L anymore is odd to me because its performance is mediocre and it gets similar MPG's to the 6.2L and much worse than the 2.7L or 3.0 Duramax. The 2.7L is honestly a better truck engine than the 5.3L in most meaningful aspects except for the vroom vroom noises.

None of the of the other V8's on the market are able to get there. The Titan V8 drinks fuel, the Tundra 5.7 did, the Hemi does, and the 5.0 is only marginally better.

V8's will only exist in significant numbers in the HD class. They have a place there because they can be kept simple and powerful since they are not bound by CAFE. There is no way any of the MFG's would create a pushrod, port injected, non-DOD V8(simple and reliable) like the 7.3L and put it in a half ton at this point.

 

Nobody is saying that V8s aren't dying off, but the cause isn't a lack of a market as implied by those stating market research guided the removal. It's regulation that is demanding they be phased out. With the massive success and sales that the Hemi V8s of all sizes have enjoyed over the last decade+ it's clear that there is no shortage of demand.

Performance/numbers on paper are not the only thing that drive sales. There is a certain amount of nostalgia and romanticized appeal that V8s have that keep them relevant from a demand perspective. It's very similar to the appeal of a 45 ACP 1911 when there are much more advanced, modern, and better performing options. There are still plenty of 45s developed and sold by a multitude of manufacturers. I think we would see the same thing with V8s if the EPA and Cali regs were removed from the equation. Everyone doesn't want the highest performance numbers. Some are drawn to the feel and sound of something that doesn't make sense on paper, but undeniably has an appeal to the heart.

 

Wow - I totally forgot about the 3rd gen's getting a 10spd tran. I know mileage improvement isn't the only reason or purpose of the 10spd but seeing real world 3rd gen MPGs only be a roughly 1-2mpg improvement over the V8/6spd explains why Toyota totally dropped the V8. Imagine pair the 5.7 with that 10spd. I bet you'd see the same 1-2mpgs plus all of the other performance improvements boasted in the 3rd gen pamphlets. Which would probably yield zero sales of the TT-V6.

 

You’ve done a fine job putting into words my exact thoughts better than I’m capable of myself. Super spot on for me anyway. Not all of us “NeEd MoHr TekK”. Real car people will miss that V8 experience. I can get down with a good sounding and performing V6, I6, or 4banger as well, granted I think that’s much more fun and better suited in a car…Super excited for that GR Corolla for example. The thought of having to drive an all electric vehicle really bums me out for the future of the auto industry. Things with engines and wheels are my hobby, and it’s frustrating to see it slowly degrade and be taken away. First they will take our V8s, then internal combustion altogether. The thought of an electric car or truck has zero appeal to me, no matter how powerful it may be. Boringgggg

 

But real world doesnt matter so much. Only this does:



That's a 35% improvement in the combined rating. They weren't getting that from slapping a 10 speed behind the V8

 

The post I quoted was saying that people want V8's in response to someone else saying they are dying off. It certainly seemed he was arguing that they were not dying off.

The MFG's don't care about your nostalgia apparently.

Once I hooked up a trailer behind my TTV6 and towed it around the rockies at 6500'+, my nostalgia went out the window mighty quick. I didn't buy a truck because of loud noises and cause it looks cool. It does a job. And the TTV6 honestly does the job better in virtually every way. MPG's might be a side benefit, but I would still drive a TTV6 even if it got worse MPG's.

 

FIFY

 

At $2.10 per litre of regular unleaded, HELL NO... lol.

I'd me more interested in the new truck when they tune the hybrid for range and efficiency rather than more power. I thought that when gas was $1 a litre as well. But any way you slice it, not until the growing pains are worked out of the new truck.

 

lol, i guess i can throw wrench into this. have you heard about cummins moving to electric and hydrogen.

 

They may as well. The regs have already gutted the legendary reliability of diesels. The EGRs, DEF, and all the added maintenance that goes with them ruined the affordability and reliability of diesels about a decade ago. It's just taken time for people to see it. Electric/hybrid is being implemented by regulatory fiat rather than natural technological advancement. Cart before the horse.

 

Slowly, battery + electric motor is replacing cylinders. In ~5 years, most vehicles will be hybrids. The Tundra will likely have a 4 cylinder turbo option with larger battery and EV motor to compensate.

Personally, I prefer a turbo engine over a naturally aspirated engine in any vehicle. I love the low neck snapping torque of a turbo kicking in. The V8 2020 Tundra I test drove before the 22 I bought did not get me excited at all.

 

Hey V8s like boost too you know! In the range of 600hp and torque @ the crank with 8psi. The start of the torque curve looks like the Hoover dam between 2000 and 2500 rpm.