Toyota Warns (Again) About Electrifying All Autos.

Toyota’s head of energy and environmental research Robert Wimmer testified before the Senate this week, and said: “If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification, it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability.”

Toyota warns that the grid and infrastructure simply aren’t there to support the electrification of the private car fleet. A 2017 U.S. government study found that we would need about 8,500 strategically-placed charge stations to support a fleet of just 7 million electric cars. That’s about six times the current number of electric cars but no one is talking about supporting just 7 million cars. We should be talking about powering about 300 million within the next 20 years, if all manufacturers follow GM and stop making ICE cars.

Full article:
https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-p...ifying-all-autos-is-anyone-listening-n1433674

 

While I accept and agree that most vehicles will eventually be electric or alternate powered, letting the government dictate the timeline is just silly. 15 years is a lofty goal. We'll get a long way in that time, but we're at least 50-75 years from being able to support a fully electric fleet, if ever.
Toyota is correct in their assessment that the goal is virtuous, but the plan to get there is non-existent. What should happen is to let the market dictate the timeline, both infrastructure and manufacturing. The automakers will produce what they think will sell and when, the petroleum companies will slowly start transitioning to charging stations. The only thing the government should be involved in ensuring the power grid is up to the task, which knowing how our government operates will never happen. Putting a timeline on it is just overly ambitious and destined to fail.

 

Government oversight is more about us renting or ubering and lyfting our way around, minus the drivers and fuels... eventually we'll find ourselves in Judge Dredd style super towers where we live, work and shop....
Let's be real either side gets rich by lobbyists who I'm sure are looking out for our best interests...

 

...

 

Nailed it. ^^^

 

The government can take my ICE from my dead cold hands. (And indeed... they probably will kill me, if not for this, then because I don't want the covid shot, or because they come to take my means of self-defense...) Morons, the lot of them. Fossil fuels will never go away, the recent winter storms proved it. The greenies are too chicken to go with the most sensible option: Nuclear.

 

The fact the entire western world isn’t nuclear shows how bad of a situation we are in. I won’t say more so the thread doesn’t get locked.

 

who is asking for these electrical cars? seriously.....

 

Lol... I don't even know, but I could tell you, 3 of my neighbors have 1, but usually remain parked in driveways while they use their ICE vehicles to daily. 1 of those neighbors have a diesel truck and a highlander and usually use the Sierra more than any other vehicle....

 

haha...this makes absolutely no sense. I could see the other way around, electric for the daily grind. Although, the way the electrical company in california is taking the prices up, it wouldnt shock me if gas was cheaper....glad i went solar.

 

The only thing that western storms proved is that those who refuse to winterize their gear will indeed suffer issues when they counter conditions that require winterization. Doesnt matter what tech you are using. If you pretend it will always be sunny and 75, you will suffer problems when it isnt.

 

I would take one if I lived in the city. Would be a good second car for commuting but that's about it. They are also way overpriced

 

If we only had wireless power...

 

The power companies, the ‘infrastructure’ lobbyists, the attorneys that draft the regulations and laws for the govt...you know, all the people who live/work in the bubbles.

I mean, they’re so much smarter and they really know what’s best for everyone...

-End sarcastic rant.
Thanks OP for a good ‘ole Friday afternoon chuckle.


Excuse me while I go crank my truck and pop off a few revs. I have a hankering for a little 5.7, DD industries music now....

 

Even then it doesn't work out. You're better off buying a Yaris than a Prius, or whatever full-time EV.

I've priced it out. I used to live on Staten Island. Driving to the City for work, and then when I worked on the Island, I would get between 15 to 20 mpg in the Yaris, I thought I could do better. After all you burn no gas in a hybrid at lights or driving bumper to bumper. But then I did the math. When your drive to work is under 20 miles, or when I switched jobs, 6 miles, even at low mpg you don't drive enough miles to get a benefit from the higher mpg that exceeds the high cost of the hybrid (no EV then). It would've taken between 15 and 20 years to break even.

Then I moved to PA. I drive 775 miles a week just to/from work. However on the highway a hybrid doesn't do much better than a Yaris. Meanwhile a Chevy Bolt is so expensive it would take me... drumroll ... 15 years to break even, and that is not including the price to run electric to my driveway.

In the meantime you could invest the money you don't spend on the EV, or do what this noob did and buy a used 2nd gen Tundra for 15K to have fun with.

 

Your math and logic is sound. That’s always been the conundrum with replacing a car with a hybrid or EV. If you’re in the market for a new car to replace something old and crappy or because you just want a new vehicle, then looking at those makes sense. If you’re replacing an otherwise good car JUST to save on gas, then it’s a losing proposition. I went through the same thing with solar on my house in CA years ago. The cost of entry vs the eventual savings on electricity would have taken me 15 years to close that gap. If buying or building new then sure, add the solar. I think the solar sales craze is over and you can get into it a lot cheaper these days, but at the beginning it just didn’t make sense.

 

On the other hand, if you needed a new car anyway, the Corolla hybrid costs about $2k more than the standard one and gets 50 mpg vs 25. If you drive 6000 miles a year and fuel is $4/gallon like it is here, it only takes 4 years to pay off that difference.

 

Absolutely makes sense. If you’re already buying something, or adding a car to your fleet then that gap gets much smaller much quicker. When we replace my wife’s Highlander in a few years it will almost guaranteed be a Toyota hybrid... maybe even a 2023 Sequoia depending on how those turn out after the release.

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/tesla-toyota-eye-restarting-suv-partnership

 

Hmm, that’s interesting. A Tesla powered Toyota. I wonder who would service it? If Tesla makes it where you can only get it seen by a Tesla service department then they can keep it. If Toyota is able to service them then it might be worth a look. I went with a friend to drop his Tesla off for something and he told me he made the appointment two months prior. The service writer we spoke to did not instill a lot of confidence in his ability to understand the problem or that they had the staff on site to even address it. Teslas are cool, but they have a long way to go in service after the sale.

 

A few years ago, I read an article written by a Public Utilities Executive who said the subdivisions built 50 years ago and older could only handle 3 cars charging at one time. They will expect everyone to buy a home battery storage unit like the Tesla Powerwall.

 

To OnespeedTRD, I think we can agree that the givernment is not concerned about anything other than their agenda which is not based on economics nor reality of any kind.

 

The Globalist Idea will be exactly that, but you work and then buy your existence back from the Corporations. Much of the United States was like that at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. You worked 7 days a week, you paid to live in company housing, you were paid company credits that were only good at the company store, etc. People were basically slaves to the big companies. This is why the Unions were started.

 

I don't know how much overall recharging infrastructure will be required but when I get an all-electric vehicle I plan to charge at home at night during off-peak hours. That won't require any additional charging station infrastructure, and charging during off-peak hours won't require any additional grid capacity unless or until off-peak hours at night morphs into peak hours. I also might entertain the idea of home solar panels for vehicle charging which will be a reduction in grid demand.

EV naysayers will ultimately find themselves with the buggy whip boys.

 

I just attended a conference in California that discussed meeting these expectations. Things like micro-grids (battery storage) were discussed along with their cost benefits, which aren't there. They expect micro-grids to become a mandate from the state for Public utilities.

When it doesn't make sense...make it law.

 

They also discussed the extreme energy costs in California these policies are directly creating and their affects on disadvantaged communities. Families living within these communities can't afford the capital to offset these costs or take advantage of Solar/Electric vehicle incentives. The whole thing is a hot mess of feel-good policies made my people that have no education or background in electrical systems or how they actually work.

Rant over. Sorry guys, I had to listen to this garbage for 3 days

 

For city drivers/commuters, EV makes sense. Some will go beyond. Read a post by a guy the other day who planned out a trip halfway across country based on how far his Tesla would go each day and where he had to stop for a charging station. It can be done, but I don’t see the logic in having to so closely calculate and base a large part of the trip around your vehicles capability.
Not to mention the huge infrastructure of national supply based on fossil fuel transportation. It’s just not feasible to convert anytime soon with our current state.

 

Where's Nikola Tesla when you need him....
I'm all for saving the planet we live on, but getting the crap forced down our throats is just ridiculous. The amount of energy and waste used to make the new green deal happen will far outweigh the benefits.
Most of the younger generation seems to rely on living in a big city and having crap delivered to them, so they don't even have to leave their apartment.