Frozen rotors and Hawk brake pads

My biggest disappointment with my 17 CM SR5 TRD is the crappy brakes. My truck has 31k miles and the rotors have been turned under warranty once already. Within 5-7k, they are already exhibiting poor performance, fade and vibration when heated up and generally just shitty. I do drive in traffic, tow a TT and spend a fair amount of time on hilly, curvy mountain roads, so I know and am aware that I’m, at times, really heating the brakes up with limited time for them to cool. But, I’m a responsible driver and these brakes should be able to handle normal duty for a 7k lb truck.

I’m looking at upgrading the fronts and there is just a ton of info out there with minimal real world reviews; Centric, etc. I need brakes that dissipate heat better, don’t fade, can handle a load, won’t vibrate or need service so quickly.

I was trolling the Dirty Deeds Ind website and came across the Frozen rotors and Hawk pads that are offered. I’ve read positive reviews of the Hawk pads but know nothing of Frozen rotors, which sounds like a total gimmick. Is anyone using this setup? It’s an expensive upgrade so I’d like to hear some real world reviews.

Thanks!

 

By "crappy", I'm guessing you believe they stop fine, but you aren't happy with the rotors warping?

While towing my old (sold it since) down a mountain I believe I wrapped my rotors a little bit. The boat wasn't big enough to need trailer brakes, but I do believe I "drug" my brakes lightly down the grades instead of occasionally "stabbing" them.

I am considering going with a different rotor setup AND making sure I don't drag my brakes downhill.

Part of me wonders if it's a quality control issue as well, different batch of steel, etc.

How could @ColoradoTJ get so many miles out of his even with a big TT and mine warp towing a small boat down a hill driving nice and slow?

 

X1000!!!

I have posted a video here from time to time about properly bedding your brakes in after installation. It is good to see someone else post the information about the warped rotor myth. Yes, you can "warp" rotors - but it is a lot harder to do than most people think.

I also had what I thought were "warped" rotors on a previous vehicle, and then I did some research and found the bedding procedure. Every single time that I start experiencing that wobble feeling under higher speed braking, I just go do the procedure again. Works like a charm. I have 65,000 on my crappy Tundra brakes and they are holding up just fine.

Here is the video. It is more geared toward race cars, but the procedure for street vehicles is explained also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdPX6rzuINc

 

I just had my rotors machined due to wobble at 65mph and heavy vibration when braking. Had pads replaced as well. This eliminated the problem for now, and I bed them all properly. I'm very used to bedding on my track cars, changing pads at least 2x/year on those. Will see how it holds up.

That said - for the small incremental cost of great rotors vs. good, and great pads vs. good I think having the best braking system available sure makes sense and the cryo's sound pretty darn amazing. Will be using them next time around.

 

I think the issue is that the rotors get a build up on them due to the ceramic pads which in turn results in the pulsation you feel. I'm at 30k now on my truck and I am starting to get the pulsation at higher speeds now once the brakes are hot. I haven't decided if I want to keep the rotors that are on the truck and have them turned or move up to some slotted rotors since those seem to help eliminate the deposits that accumulate on the disc surface. I went with an EBC kit on the wife's Tacoma after dealing with the pulsation issue twice and haven't had an issue since.

 

That sounds like it makes sense. I will replace the rotors myself next time around, pretty easy job.

 

So are you saying if you start to feel that pulsation, to do the bed in process over again with half worn brake pads?
I’ve seen or read a few different procedures to bed the brake pads in. Usually I do a few moderately heavy breaking from 30 to 20 mph then a few higher speed heavy breaking procedures but not coming to a stop. Then I go home and let them cool off.

 

Yes. I think it was in that video near the end where he mentions if you start to see a performance fade, repeat the procedure.

I myself have had good luck with repeating the procedure when I start to notice the vibration during braking.

I do 8-10 runs up to about 50-55 mph and then down to around 5 without stopping. Then drive for about 30 minutes for a cool down.

 

The procedure in theory differs for each manufacturer. I followed Hawk as it seemed in the middle... from Tire Rack site:

All brake pads must be bedded-in with the rotor they will be used against to maximize brake performance. The bedding-in process involves a gradual build up of heat in the rotors and pad compound. This process will lay down a thin layer of transfer film on to the rotor surface. Following the bed-in procedures provided by the manufacturer will assure a smooth, even layer of transfer film on the rotor and will minimize brake judder. Here are a few things to keep in mind when installing new rotors and pads:

When installing new pads, the rotors should be new or at least resurfaced to remove any transfer film from the previous set of brake pads.

It is critical that the installer clean any rust, scale, or debris from the hub mounting surface thoroughly and check it for excessive run-out with a dial indicator gauge before installing the rotor.

The new rotor should also be checked for excessive run-out using a dial indicator gauge before the caliper and pads are installed. If a rotor has excessive run-out of over .004" (.10mm) it should be replaced.

If your new rotor has excessive run-out, please contact our customer service department for a replacement rotor. Do not install and drive using the rotor! Rotor manufacturers will not warranty a used rotor for excessive run-out. Running with excessive run-out on the hub or rotor will cause vibration issues.

"Bedding-in new pads and rotors should be done carefully and slowly...Most brake pad compounds will take up to 300-400 miles to fully develop an even transfer film on the rotors."

Failure to follow these procedures may result in brake judder, excessive noise, or other difficulties in bedding-in the new brake pads. The pads need a fresh surface to lay down an even transfer film. Residue from the previous pad compound on the surface or an irregular surface on a used rotor will cause the pads to grip-slip-grip-slip as they pass over the rotor surface under pressure. The resulting vibration will cause noise and telegraph vibrations through the suspension and steering wheel. This vibration is known as brake judder or brake shimmy. This is typically caused by an uneven transfer film on the rotor surface or an uneven surface on the rotor not allowing that transfer film to develop evenly. This is often misdiagnosed as a warped rotor.

Bedding-in new pads and rotors should be done carefully and slowly. Rapid heat build up in the brake system can lead to warped rotors and or glazed brake pads. Most brake pad compounds will take up to 300-400 miles to fully develop an even transfer film on the rotors. Following are the recommended bed-in procedures from each manufacturer:

AKEBONO
400 to 500 miles of moderate driving is recommended. Consumer should avoid heavy braking during this period.

ATE
400 to 500 miles of moderate driving is recommended. Consumer should avoid heavy braking during this period.

BREMBO GRAN TURISMO
In a safe area, apply brakes moderately from 60mph to 30mph and then drive approximately 1/2 mile to allow the brakes to cool. Repeat this procedure approximately 30 times.

HAWK
After installing new pads make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 35 mph with moderate pressure. Make an additional two to three hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph. Do not allow the vehicle to come to a complete stop.When completed with this process, park the vehicle and allow the brakes to cool completely before driving on them again. Do not engage the parking brake until after this cooling process is compete.

Note: Hawk racing pads (Blue, Black, HT-10, HT-12) may require a different bed-in procedure. Contact your sales specialists at the Tire Rack for racing application information.

POWER SLOT
Follow the brake pad manufacturer's recommended break-in procedure taking care not to produce excessive heat in the system. Avoid heavy braking for the first 400-500 miles.

 

I have heard that you aren't supposed to repeat the procedure from a few different sources - it should only be done with new components.

But, it seems to me that you can mess up that transfer layer pretty easily. In my reading, I noticed that some say to repeat the process if needed. So, I gave it a try - and it has worked for me so far.

 

The second article is absurd. Pads do NOT create deposits on rotors and I have taken plenty of Tundra rotors off of my truck, placed them on a surface plate and had them wobble up to 1/16" due to warpage.