Bathroom remodel (YIKES!)

Our house was built in '93 and every year we upgrade something on the house. Usually it's an exterior feature one year, then an interior, then an exterior and so on.

We've done quite a bit of work to the house so I thought I had a pretty good idea on the cost of things. That is until I started getting some bids for a full (but small) bathroom.

Pretty typical bathroom. One piece tub with surround, toilet, vanity. Not including the shower, the floor is 5x5. Add a toilet and vanity on top of that 5x5 and it's a relatively small space.

I got two bids for the following:
Complete demo
New tub (American standard americast)
Raise the shower nozzle height
Curved shower rod with in-wall blocking
Solid surface shower surround (swanstone in one bid, some other acrylic in the other)
Demo out old ceramic floor, re-install luxury vinyl tile floor
New toilet
New vanity
New light fixture
Float the walls, primer and paint.

One bid was turn-key at $7880! That price accounts for me purchasing a vanity and light fixture.

The other bid required me to sub-out the new floor, paint, AND purchase the toilet, vanity, light fixture and all accessories into my garage for them to install. $7660!

What in the actual fuck?!? Am I way off here???

Came back to earth today when I got a bid from a custom builder for EVERYTHING (tile surround instead of solid surface.) $3500 but I will be purchasing and staging all materials to the garage for him before he even starts the job. I've spent a few days building a materials list and will be $1500-$1700 for product. Even accounting for the unexpected, $5500 out the door will be the top.... and that includes higher end finishes.

You guys have any opinions on all this??

 

Turn key bid for $7880 for the win. That price is more than fair, and you will have a disaster if there is an issue having multiple different contractors involved. Disregard the cheap bid, it won’t be.

 

I would consider the more affordable option if he has good references and you have the extra time to get the materials. That is a significant savings for other stuff.

 

^^^^ from vizsla This is all true. Where I live, that's super cheap. Heck, my shower valve was $1,000 + and it's nothing super fancy. I would charge $2,500+ just for the vanity that I'm building.

 

I completely redid my barroom last year. 50sqft total with 18 of that being the shower. I was down to the studs too. My wife gets wholesale pricing due to her job and we came in at almost 5.5k. That was with me doing all the work: tile, flooring electrical ect... now we did go about as nice as you can with both the finishes and behind the scenes. We used all Schluter products, marble everywhere, floor to ceiling tile, custom shower glass ect... in the long run you get what you pay for, especially when it comes to water tightness

 

As far as pricing goes for any small projects they are always more difficult to keep the cost down. You can't look at it as a per square foot price. To do any job correctly you have to have multiple trades, materials and time to complete the work. I don't think the first two proposals are that far out of the pricing. Kitchens and bathrooms are always the two most expensive areas to remodel on a home.

As a builder I get to see how some owners just don't realize what things actually cost to be done by qualified people. I'll give you an example. I had a referral client who wanted a garage built. I went through all the home owners requirements and specs and did an itemized bid. The owner said he had someone who was a lot cheaper. I told him to make sure they are bidding the same scope of work. He said they had the same on everything. After a few months the owner called me to look at the garage during the framing stage. It was a disaster! Framing wasn't even close to code. The garage door header had over 2" of deflection, concrete foundation wasn't done correctly and multiple other things done incorrectly. I felt bad for the owner but he elected to use them.

My point being is to make sure you properly interview your builder or remodeler. Make sure you either have a set of plans with the finishes or you have everything selected. Also ask if they have any photos of work they have done. You can also ask for referrals from prior clients. IMO the $3,500 price for labor doesn't sound right to me. I hope you do get it done within your budget and it's done right.

 

I have one suggestion. Do not get the Americast tub. Piece of shit. It’s just pressed steel. Get a cast-iron tub. If you ever have to replace the drain on that Americast I have seen them rot completely out.And most of the times $10,000 is an average cost for an average bathroom around here.

 

All the way down to the studs and back up for $7880 is super cheap. We just did ours (we moved a wall to make it bigger) for $12k and did the demo ourselves. I’ll try to find a before pic too

 

Super cheap, man. That seems like a $10,000 job to me.

 

I would expect 5k to be a middle of the road quote for that. The biggest issues you will get is that this is a multiple trip project, but with less overall work because of the size. If I am running a remodeling business, that's a TON of opportunity cost and therefore it is built in the quote.

For instance, someone might quote a 10x10 bath $9k while a 5x5 bath $7k because their labor costs will relatively be the same.

I am doing my 5x5 + tub/shower bath this summer. I am budgeting $1k - $1500 for materials and know I will end up over that. And that is for:

Reglazing the tub - new vanity/fixtures - tile surround - toilet - vinyl flooring. Luckily my shower door is good because that can eat 500-1k in your budget.

I enjoy DIY each project, but am also doing so with my house value in mind.

If you are going to tile - I am a fan of back buttering the tiles. Ensure straight mortar lines too - curves can cause uneven spots which = broken tiles. The Schluter system is slick.

 

One suggestion for reglazing your tub. Have the spud removed before the glaze. That is a susceptible area where it could peel off later. While you’re at it put a new waste and overflow in as well as the trap if it’s in bad shape.

 

The tub has been reglazed before and that is the worst spot for peeling. Going to hit everything with the sander first to even and feather out the peeled spots to help prevent in the future.

Great advice though!

Also re-doing plumbing (galvanized to Pex).

 

I am a plumber and have been for 20 years. I was against pex at first. But I am a believer now. The money I’ve made just fixing pinhole leaks in copper, you would be amazed. Definitely a good choice, although instead of the metal clamps I prefer a different brand called Uponor. https://www.uponor-usa.com/residential-plumbing/homeowner/pex-explained.aspx
The stuff is amazing. You could literally hit it with a torch and it will go back to its original shape. The only thing you need to be aware of is to not let it be exposed to sunlight. Even storing it until use, keep it out of the sun. They wrap the rolls in a UV resistant film. Still no more than 30 days in the sun.

 

Thanks guys for all the feedback.
I certainly don't mind paying for quality. I think the sticker shock came in regarding my comparison of apples and oranges. For example, we totally re-did the front of our house 2 years ago. Put in a whole new front entry way, quarter-sawn white oak, craftsman style interior door frame, added stone work to the front of the house where there was none, and put up new vertical board and batton siding above the stone work.
All of that was a little less than $3,000. That's everything. I did do the small amount of siding work and trimmed out the windows in wood myself.

I understand quality costs, and quality is what we all want. Based on my experiences doing several construction projects around the house, I "guestimated" the bathroom reno to be about $5000-5,500. Appears some contractors add a premium upcharge to work on spaces that are "trendy" to reno.

 

The difference between remodeling front of your house and a bathroom is the fact that you have to have multiple trades squeezed into a small space. Basically 10 pounds of shit in 1 pound bag. Tile, electrical, drywall, woodworking, painting, shower doors, rough work, finish work. All those trades charged a premium. I used to love it when customers would call me and tell me oh it’s easy it shouldn’t take you too long. If it was easy they would do with themselves. Giving them the benefit of the doubt a lot of times it is easy for me. But you were paying for my expertise and many years of acquired knowledge and blood sweat and tears. Good luck on your remodel. The hardest part is finding a guy that you can trust.

 

Same deal with my buddy. He owns a plumbing business and swears pex is a more profitable and consistent product. Not to mention <$1000 for running pex through my whole house versus $2-3k easy for copper.

 

Hard part on bathrooms is it is a multiple stage job.

I had my roof, soffits, and gutters done in a day by a crew. The bathroom will call for multiple different people over several different days which equals travel/setup time for each, adding a premium. I think you can find a good contractor to do the work for 5-6k.

 

CA premiums .

Cabinet maker or woodworker? Or both I guess.

 

Everything, when necessary. But mostly furniture and entry doors these days.
Here's a hollow wood surf board that I made. It's Alaskan Yellow cedar and Mirrasou wine tank redwood.

 

I will stick with the Cooper pipe we have used the pex and have the tools for it but prefer the Cooper.

 

Very cool!

 

Nice work! Reminds me of a canoe build. I enjoy woodworking, but am not yet at the skill level that I would consider myself a woodworker. However, I have done a few coffee table and dining table builds with pinned m&t breadboard ends (at least no longer pocket hole reliant!).

 

Those lines look true as the day is long. You clearly know your way around a level and plumb line. Nice work.

 

Word.

 

Type L copper on everything I do, might as well do it right.

 

Lots of good info in here, I'm glad to also see people talk about quality of work vs. price. I'm a painting contractor and have my own business so I get the " Joe from down the street is half your price" speech as well...mostly in Residential. Commercial clients need someone who is paying taxes, can provide a w9 and proof of insurance so they usually don't bark at price if you are fair. Things to remember is that any professional in the trades price isn't just his hours on the job but also his overhead included in that figure which are things like Insurance, workman's comp, payroll expenses, commercial insurance for work vehicle which isn't cheap at all. Once I point these things out to those who bark at prices and explain to them that is "Joe" from down the street falls off a ladder on there property they could be liable they then quickly ask me when I could schedule them for the work.

 

And some pics of my tile work, don’t take many. Sorry shameless, but I love doing tile, and am very good at it. Usually around $3-4K worth of tile(includes prep, won’t touch otherwise) in an average bathroom depending on tile selection, it can be much more.

 

Looks great, interesting 'cause I don't think I've seen tape used like that.

 

I'd like to show you the shower I'm doing now. I'm no tile setter but I pretend. It's lime stone and I'm gluing trim pieces together, rounding over outside corners with a diamond bit and polishing it out.