Are GAS engines better than FLEXIBLE FUEL engines?

I knew I wanted a GAS engine, not a FLEX engine. I've read some negative things about FLEX but, really, I don't really understand the differences, and what basis for concern the FLEX brings.

Longevity? Extra servicing requirements? Less power?

And what if I only use gasoline in a FLEX; would that negate those FLEX problems, whatever they may be?

It seems the remaining new 2017's are FLEX fuel. I need to know this "for a friend" who may want a truck exactly like mine but with 4WD.

Please tell me anything you know. Thanks, y'all!

 

Not sure I'll ever do a supercharger




but I DO want longevity.

And 4WD.

What do you mean by

Do you mean FLEX trucks need a computer flash type update, or-?

And what if I only run gasoline, not E85, should the longevity of a FLEX engine be the same as for gasoline?

Would I have to do more maintenance (cost)?

Thanks, Gino!

 

AS far as maintenance cost is concerned Toyota requires an engine oil and filter change every 5000 miles for the FFV if you use regular gas, if you actually use E85 the oil should be changed more frequently. You can go on the Toyota website and download the Maintenance & Warranty Manual for a FFV and non-FFV Tundra and compare the maintenance schedules, there are two different manuals (at least for the 2018s).

Mine is a FFV and I have no issues, actually like it because I get double the amount of free oil changes under Toyota Care, I am also not a big fan of 10K intervals. Besides that I had several F-150s and Ram trucks with a FFV engine, it was never an issue.

 

Yeah, I'm not into extra maintenance.

 

Can anyone tell me, why WOUld anyone choose a FLEX over GAS?

 

I don't think there is a good reason unless you want to add a SC later on (supposedly the FFV is better for that setup) or like to use E85 which makes no sense to me. Where I live E85 is about 10% cheaper but your fuel mileage will drop by about 25%, that doesn't add up to me.

At least Toyota gives you a choice and you can get either engine, buy a F-150 with the 5.0L V8 and it will be FFV, no choice there. With that said, it is hard to find a non-FFV in Missouri (we part of the farm/corn belt).

 

I have a 2010 FFV 5.7. No issues here. I ran FF twice in the last year. No noticeable performance change, about .5-1mpg drop on my highway drive from PA to NC. Mileage went right back up when I ran a full tank of 87.

Things that I do know.
-A more robust fuel pump (possibly 2 stage?)
-Larger injectors.
-Special nitride coatings on some parts of the fuel system to prevent corrosion.

Things that I have heard or are floating around on the web.
-The injectors are also nitride coated internally and externally.
-Different manufacturers also apply nitride or similar coatings to engine internals and bearings.

The nitride or similar coating process is supposed to be for 2 things. In the fuel system ethanol acts as a sponge for water, therefore the internals of the fuel system are more susceptible to corrosion. The reason for the coating of engine internals has to do with the acidic remnants left in the combustion chamber after ethanol is burned, this is also the main reason for shorter oil change intervals.

I didn't get a FFV because I plan on running flex fuel. I got it because it was a smokin deal on a 2010 with low miles and it just happened to be a FFV. I saw no cons in my research before buying, and a year later still see no cons.

 

For the Zombie apocalypse!

 

Depending on your location a 4x4 non-flex might not be available. When I started looking back in 2014 I was told in the gulf states region the only way to get 4x4 was with flex fuel, but they could get me a 4x2 non-flex fuel. They said if I absolutely had to have a non-flex they could locate the truck I wanted, but that I would have to plan to fly to where it was at and drive it back because it wouldn't be within a couple thousand miles of where I live.

 

Because I wanted a 4x4 with the TRD package and FFV is all I could find in DFW, and it is a 2017 and I got a great deal on it last November. I don't ever plan on using E85 though.

 

I have a FFV. I don’t see the concern. I run gas ONLY. I to like to change my oil every 5000 miles.
Yes, synthetic can go 10,000 more than likely without issue but part of me thinks the change was made to cut down on services for the 2/25 free maintenance.

 

So... if I understand it:
FFV systems are coated to prevent corrosion caused by exposure to E85;

but if I only use gas, there should be no down side except more frequent oil changes, and no corrosion;

and that increased frequency of oil changes is dictated based on the possibility that I'll use E85;

also, FFV have a more robust fuel pump and larger injectors.

So if I use only gas, there should be no down-side?

The only places I've found 2017's still on the lot with the configuration I want, are back east. So I guess that's why I'm only seeing FFV.

Me neither. And I don't live near the corn belt. I haven't even seen E85 widely available on the West coast.

What do you mean by "to cut down on services for the 2/25 free maintenance"? Don't FFV's require twice the maintenance?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. And I am like you....5K is enough on an oil change, just for my own piece of mind.

 

Getting a non-flex fuel also depends on where your at. Like here in the Mid-west, non-ffv isnt even an option. All ours come FFV, now we still do see a lot of non flex here still. As far as longevity, there is no difference that I have seen between the 2. The only difference mechanically are the fuel injectors and fuel pump. I have a 15 PRO FFV and I never run e85. As far as problems yea we had a update come out for some of them due to the alcohol density calibrations reading wrong, but ecu reflash and alcohol relearn and they were good to go.

Extra maint wise, there isn't extra maint, oil changes just stay at the 5K interval like tundra has been before the 14s. Even if i didn't have FFV I would still do my oil at 5k, As a tech no i haven't seen any issue on tundras from goin 10k intervals, but I dont like it personally, Its a big engine I want it fresh and very well taken care of.

As far as that there is no difference between the 2, in regards to performance(on reg gas), towing, mpg, etc. Not really any reason gas are better, it would actually be the other way around as the flex is more versatile in fuel type, and if you ever wanted to go forced induction or full e85 power tune and such.

 

I reread it, and now I think I understand, you meant the change of non-FFV oil changes from 5k to 10k intervals.

 

FFV is faster better sounding and comes in 4x4. Lol

 

Ditto. Just change DFW for Denver . . .
None of the dealerships had a non-FFV engine, so got what I could. Have never used E85.

Also, I think I've read somewhere here that E85 produces more water during combustion and could weather some parts as a result Can't remember 100% if true or not.

 

So, I never knew before, but it sounds like a lot/ most of you that have 4WD have FFV....

Anybody with a 2017 4WD that's NOT FFV, please chime in. Did you have a choice, or do anything specific to get it?

 

Reading the whole thread, I am inclined to say that a FFV truck is really a good choice if you don't run E85 because you get an upgraded and more corrosion resistant fuel system. The only downside for some would be the more frequent oil changes; not so for me because I have my oil changed every 5K miles regardless of engine type or truck brand for that matter. I guess I am just "old school".

 

I'd get on a plane if needed to find a non flex fuel Tundra. Fortunately in my area they don't sell them.

buying a flex fuel vehicle is a vote for more BS gov't subsidies and corn fuel. as consumers we need to punish companies that bow to the EPA corn lobby by not purchasing those products and making it economically undesirable to produce them.

 

This is pretty much what my problem is. An emotional aversion to buying an FFV vehicle. So, looking at it through that lens, it was easy to focus on any/ every negative.

Only when I decided I'd like to have 4WD and haven't found what I want in other-than FFV, did I realize I didn't actually know many facts, negative or otherwise.

Based on the answers here so far, it seems my resistance is truly based on principal and feeling, and that the FFV version is not actually any worse, and might have some attributes over the non-FFV.

 

This^^^^ FF is less efficient compared to pure gas. The energy used to make FF is considerably higher than to produce the same amount of pure gas. Corn should be used for food and feed. The attributes mentioned about FFV I believe to be overstated somewhat. I'd drive to Maine or Alaska to buy a non Flex. My $.02

 

There are a lot of FFV vehicles out driving every day if there was serious issues we would know. So far mine has been great and I have only ran regular fuel. I have never even seen a E85 offered at a pump here in AZ.

 

In most cases the manufacturer does not have a choice in how many FFV's they produce, this goes for every auto manufacturer. They also do not have a choice in producing electric vehicles or hybrids. This all has to do with the gross emissions output that the manufacturers are graded against. This is all bureaucratic malarkey that has been shoved down the throat of the auto industry.

I do agree with better emissions standards and theirs nothing wrong with commuters having 50mpg hybrids. The FFV regulations should have never been put into law and the corn subsidies should have never happened. More energy is consumed to make 1 gallon of ethanol vs 1 gallon of gas, and then the ethanol contains less BTU per volume.

In short, if Toyota wants to legally be allowed to sell the Tundra in the USA then they need to sell a ton of Prius' and a ton of FFV engines in all other vehicles. It's loopholes to be able to sell a vehicle with a low MPG rating.

There are no negatives to actually owning a FFV 5.7 and only running gasoline in it.

The biggest message you can send to the EPA and the bureaucrats is to not purchase E85 or E15. I did it twice simply out of curiosity, but will not again for any reason since there is no positives to using it.

 

I wouldn't call a desire to not contribute to corn subsidies and a fuel product that destroys old cars, boat motors and lawn equipment for no reason other than to subsidize the corn industry a 'feeling' or 'emotion'. rather I'd call it being a responsible citizen who thinks for himself.

 

This is very true. I see them on a daily, and really don't see issues when they run e85.

But the only time the engine is going to run any different is when you use e85 other than that its goin to run the same as non flex. Here in the midwest, we have e85 at almost all the pump, I don't use it. And a little more north or west, a lot of farmers and country drivers use it, its convenient and cheaper. I just like the option, like if something serious ever happen, gas shortage or such ( very unlikely) I can run other fuel if need be.

 

oh and a product that reduces MPG and attracts water!

and I guess I was just imagining things when I saw threads about FFV trucks reading the wrong amount of ethanol in the gas and running poorly.

 

That would be me. Sounds like I'm one of the few with a non-FFV especially in the Pro line.....

Here in the Midwest the ONLY engines were FFV. It was not a deciding factor for me. After reading this forum a full year before purchase I KNEW I'd never run E-85 fuel.

Anyway, found this truck in Rhode Island and used flyer miles to rush out and get it....then drive home. Only at the dealership did I find out it was a non-FFV. Ironically, when I take it to my local dealership for service they always say, "we don't get many non-FFV trucks here. You have the better engine." I'm not sure I'd go that far, since it sounds like the FFV's are well engineered, it's just the fuel which is bad.

Either way, I'm happy with the truck and as I'm approaching "senior" status, likely not going to invest in a supercharger anyway. That's for the next owner in 10-years!

 

I think you got FFV confused with Super White