I know the gas mileage sucks but seriously?

I still would be hard pressed to bother, too much of a pain to get. We only have a few stations in the city I live in that carry it, and that changes periodically. I'd be more inclined to buy it for lawn equipment more than anything else.

 

Exactly. Unless the price of ethanol blended and ethanol-free gas is near equal, all the talk of better MPG is an exercise that doesn't translate to much benefit beyond longer term storage, lawn equipment and such. After 25 years and 300k miles of no fuel related issues, I think it's fair to say the 4.7 and all of the fuel related devices and connections from tank to injector do fine with E10. Exception being a vehicle parked for extended periods which circles back to storage.

 

I'd have to drive about 100 miles round trip to get ethanol free....;(

 

Well, a quick glance at my data shows that my short term fuel trims are back to a modest +/-4% or better; a far cry from the -98/+30 I was seeing with the old O2 sensors.

I’ll post a little later the graphical data. Hopefully my mileage will be much better and back to at least 15 mpg.

 

Nice work. I have the same Actron. Been a good one for the house.

 

I need to find a legit copy of their scanning suite ver 4. I’ve only got ver 3. before they got bought out and discontinued by Bosch. Hopefully, it’s compatible with Windows 10.

 

I think this sums it up for most of us who don't live in a region where lower cost lower octane ethanol free gas is readily available.
I run non-ethanol in my snow plow truck, generators, ATV's UTV, chainsaws, lawnmower and anything else besides my Tundras that might sit for a couple months at a time. I find that ethanol gas is OK up to 8 or 10 weeks. My chainsaws that use non ethanol have sat unused for 2 years and start right up on 2 pulls.
A guy that owns a local small engine shop, mowers etc told me that 90% of his repair business is ethanol related. Most of us were blindsided with this issue because the media didn't warn us about the problem.

 

I think you been lucky.
Location, gas station, and refinery gas comes from also makes a big difference.

Do you know all the gas is E10, or does it say "may contain 10%?"
Wife used to manage a convenience store, and I used to talk to the OTC agent responsible for testing the pumps and gas. Gas isn't always what we assume.

According to the experts Ethanol being an oxygenate increases gas octane levels, which, to me, means they can add a little of that and use lower quality/grades of gas they otherwise would have to refine more, or use somewhere else.

Locally I think we get some of the crappiest E10 they make.
We have an auger at work that got used a lot. In 1.5 years time it literally ate/melted the gas lines, ate hole in the fuel tank, and ruined the carb. They asked me fix it. Cheaper to get a new one rather than pay labor and parts.

I can definitely tell the difference between the 2 in our 4 runner, and my 2000, and 2001 GMC's"
My '01 GMC 3500 would clatter like crazy with ethanol gas, and 4 runner has less power.
Granted there is quite a difference in quality between refineries, but locally I'd have to run injector cleaner about every 5 tanks in my GMC's to keep them running good, so price savings on gas wasn't worth the chance of piston or valve burn for me.

As for the Tundra: initial drive home of 14mpg highway (previous owners used ethanol) to last nights 247 mile round trip with 17.5mpg; 40 miles of which was local driving at 5-20mph on rough back roads that really cuts mpg; after fuel system treatment ran through it, for me the higher price pays for itself.

I know its rare to happen, but I haven't willingly used it since I had it ruin a new for me ford ranger cylinder heads around 2012. Before I ran the tank out the dealership filled up when I bought it ethanol gas caused valves to stick breaking, or bending them, and damaging the pistons. (I will say, at the same time, machinist friend I took engine parts to was covered up in gas related issues. One was ford truck that had to have all the fuel lines, injectors, fuel pump etc flushed or replaced due to ethanol gas gelling. Some had injectors gumming, and a few had valves stick like mine). If the engine had more wear on it it wouldn't have stuck the valves as soon but it was very low mileage, and still tight tolerance.
It was like thick black sticky molasses in mine, and the engines he showed me.

 

If you cant get non-ethanol gas, or its crazy priced, its definitely not a viable option or worth the hassle.
Where i am, we have 5 or 6 gas stations in town that have ethanol free gas. One of them is on average about $0.35 cents higher than standard gas. This is where i get it, because its rarely over $0.40 cents higher than standard gas and at that price point its cheaper for me to get non-ethanol due to the additional mileage i get per tank.

If it was $1 higher per gallon, nah...

 

That's always been my experience with it too. In vehicles that get used a lot it's fine. In motorcycles or other small engines that can sit for long periods of time, it tends to destroy the fuel systems after a while as it goes bad.
It would have been horrible press to say "we're gonna stick corn in your gas and if you let it sit it's gonna break stuff."

 

I only got non-ethanol high test for the buell once right after i got it, and havent seen it (while on the bike) since. Cheap gas is always the freshest gas. If you dont let the ethanol sit too long, or live where its dry, it shouldnt cause harm, but its hell if you leave it in a carb over the winter.

 

We have super high humidity here in the south
One thing you can do with Ethanol gas and non-ethanol gas is put about a half gallon in a clear plastic jug like a milk jug. If you fill two identical clear plastic milk jugs up one with ethanol blended and one with non-ethanol blended gas and set them out in the open like a picnic table or on a gravel driveway, somewhere not covered like a porch. After sitting out overnight and getting cool, the next morning you can go out and see the inside of the ethanol blended jug will have condensate on the INSIDE of the jug. There will be water droplets on the inside of the jug above the fuel level. The non-ethanol wont have these water drops inside the container.

This is just after one night in a humid environment. Imagine how much water is in the air, and reacting with the ethanol blend condensating the inside of the fuel tank every night/morning while your vehicle / machine / equipment is sitting up. This is rusting the inside of the tank above the fuel line, also over time this allows the condensate to pool up on the bottom of the tank and you can drain the water out of the bowl of a carb every now and again thanks to this. Ethanol blend is ok if you are constantly using it, sloshing the tank around to mix the water and fuel, it will burn and run ok. If you let it sit up a long time its not great at all. Water in the bottom of the carb will rust / gunk everything up.

 

As a former mechanic, and cylinder head machinist/tech these sum it my up what I saw well:
Even though those made after 1980 were suppose to be ethanal capable I can't tell you the number of seats I had to cut out; even in many late 1990's vehicles: and put hardened inserts in, as well as stainless steel valves because oem couldn't handle the increased heat, and lack of lubricity of ethanol blends causes faster valve stem, and valve guide wear thus the reason for upper cylinder lube recommendation .
Will it work?
Yes. But it will most likely shorten valve/engine life.
If someone doesn't plan to keep a vehicle as long as possible it's not going to matter. I don't like vehicle payments so I keep them as long as possible to point I've put enough miles on vehicle was necessary to rebuild the engine a couple times.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2011-36-0340/#:~:text=Because of the growing Flex,main factors influencing valve recession.&text=Citation: Araújo, L.,Gilmar Alves De Paula Jr.

• Reduced lubrication: Unlike gasoline, which provides a natural cushioning and lubricating effect on valves, ethanol-based fuels offer lower lubricity. This can cause the valves to wear down more quickly, a condition known as valve seat recession, as they repeatedly contact the valve seat. The problem is most severe for engines operating under high load or high RPM, such as marine engines.

Using an upper cylinder lubricant can add back some of the lubricating properties that ethanol-blended fuels lack, which helps protect valves and other upper-cylinder components.
Ethanol also shortens engine oil life. Best start at 3:55
https://youtu.be/fZYzFyahCu8?si=RsvpnXHt8u_2v8pg

Apologies for the derailment.
I digress.

 

A little more hydro per hydrocarbon.

This is the worst mpg vehicle i’ve owned since 2008, and i can pull decent mpg out of everything but a beer bottle. But it doesnt matter cause gas is cheap and easy.

i’ll have to check when i get home, but the e-free near me is about $1.20 more. So at a larger scale (60gallons of swill=54 gallons of e-free, once the separator is flushed. Usually takes me less than 15 gallons on my trips to pasadena. 250 miles, but thats hypermiling at 2am, drafting trucks, keeping around 65 in the slow lane. Racing traffic i’ll get 13-14mpg quick. Thats almost 2 trips back and forth (@15 gal). Gas is even cheaper down here, so if i start coming down once a month i can keep a barrel here, and a couple barrels at home…a barrel should last me all the way to merus if i wanna run it as an aux tank… @bmf4069 @JakeJake amarillo have ethanol free gas?

 

I believe the sayin' is Better to be Lucky Than Good.

Seriously though, my Tundra MPG results are only slightly higher than Toyota estimates and what's par in the poll here. Seems about right for a daily driver, driven easily without towing or significant hauling, and no modifications. Nor do I see any luck involved with a 4.7 reaching 300k miles. The three vehicles we have, Tundra, Sienna and Lexus RX350 have a combined 600k miles using E10 with no fuel related issues.

Don't misunderstand, I'm simply describing my personal experience. Not the least bit interested in attempting to change anyone's mind who believes differently.

E10 refers to gasoline containing 10% ethanol, or otherwise 'up to' 10%. Below are pics of local pumps.

 

I doubt they can make enough ethanol to add 10% to everything. And the ethanol probably makes its way into cities more than the rural stations.

 

I do think a lot has to do with location, and brand additives.
I have ran e10 from Georgia area on trips years ago that seemed to perform better than E10 locally.
Gas used to set a lot longer in tanks here too (small town), but tourism has created a quicker turnover now.
Small country stations out by my house will buy straight gas because they aren’t going to be able to sell a 5k gallon tank of gas in 2-3 weeks leaving potential for it to go bad with our humid climate.

My experience locally has just really put me off of E10.

Edit: store my wife used to manage would only go through a tank every 2-3 weeks in off season. During high tourist traffic might go through 1.5 trucks a week.
During off season there were some people who filed with had company for fuel related car damage, and they started getting smaller loads during off season as a result.

 

There's one place that's sells E-free regular along with and E85, and there's another place that sells E-free 91 and 94, along with 100 and 110. The race gas station.

 

My understanding is the ethanol content is seasonal, at least in areas with real seasons. I think less ethanol in the winter and more in the summer when fuel demands go up, but I could be wrong. Even in SF where there really aren't seasons I feel like the ethanol content dropped part of the year. The pumps all still said the standard "Contains up to 10% Ethanol." Ethanol for gas and high fructose corn syrup are the two main things keeping all those corn farms in business, so they really can meet the demand for it. And the ethanol is mixed in at the distribution centers, so I feel like unless a station is paying extra for ethanol free fuel, they're probably just getting the standard special herbs and spices that their chain puts in the gas.

 

Check your parking brake cable and make sure it is releasing fully. Also make sure your brakes are not dragging. I believe my parking brake was stuck and wasn't releasing fully. I don't drive enough to notice but my mechanic had to free it up when it went in for inspection.

 

Those prices are why I always keep the compression ratios reasonably in check on my motorcycle engine builds if I'm keeping it a street bike.

 

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada