Fuel injector dilemma

Trucks misfiring. They've narrowed it down to fuel injectors. $1700 for six.

This seems like a lot to me. Anyone else been down this road?

Thanks

 

Ask him to test the fuel pressure.

Think about this for a second. Fuel pump must push fuel to the injectors at a specific pressure, usually you'll get by on EFI engines at pressures over 120-130.

One injector bad? Possible. You'd have misfire on that single cylinder.

Two? Highly unlikely at the same time, with no signs of prior degradation.

Three? Never seen three fail at same time. If all three cylinders are on same bank, I'm suspecting the fuel rail, or something on it like the fuel pressure regulator. Test for fuel pressure on that bank and/or the incoming line to verify if it's the rail or the pump not pushing enough gas.

All six? Absolutely not, test the fuel pump for pressure, and note that on '00-'04 there is a fuel filter in-line, and if someone replaced it prior, and/or depending on mileage, it may be blocked up. OEM filter flows well and usually doesn't get jammed up on these trucks the same way other vehicles will.

 

And yes, even if OEM parts, $1700 USD is a lot of skrilla.

Oh and I just noticed you got your frame replaced. TELL HIM TO INSPECT YOUR FUEL LINES. They're quick-connect variety, we've had more than one person here where a single line wasn't seating correctly and causing lean codes, misfiring.

Dealer would've had them potentially disconnected, and absolutely disconnected the fuel filter from the rail during the frame swap.

And FYI, Standard Motor Products (SMP) manufactures a number of fuel pump/injector products for OEM. This is their injector for the 2003 ($109). If he really thinks it's the inkectors - though I *HIGHY* doubt it is - that's the replacement I'd use if he insists.

 

If there was a fuel system issue would it only cause one injector to misfire? That's the scenario now. Only cyl 4 is misfiring.

 

I chatted with service advisor and there weren't any fuel related codes.

 

I'd ask them to test pressure anyway, but ...

I guess your wording confused me then: Why are they replacing ALL injectors? If they know it's injector #4, replace injector #4 and move right along.

Shouldn't be more than $250(ish) for an OEM injector, and 2-3 hours labor in their time, which most dealers I find to be in the $175-225 range unless rates have gone up substantially in the last 4-5 years.

 

How much of the 1700 is labor? Seems like since they aren't sure its even that injector they could just swap two injectors rather than gamble with your money

 

$540 for labor.

They don't have the tools to clean the original injectors either. I asked about that.

 

They're pushing that as a "since they're there" repair.

 

I'd honestly only replace the one injector. At least this way, if it doesn't fix the misfire, you're not out another $1,000 on parts. Per their math, you're at ~$200/injector plus $542.50 on labor.

Maybe "since they're their, they'd give you their price on the injector, which I'm sure probably isn't more than $110. Then and only then would I bite.

But yeah, I'd personally replace the one they're saying is failing.

 

Before asking them to replace only one injector, I'd ask what they intend to do if they replace all the injectors and it doesn't fix the problem.
Depending on your budget and how long you plan to keep the truck I personally might be ok with replacing all the injectors if one actually went bad, but only if one is actually bad. Seems like if they're wrong you should at least get a discount

 

Yes an injector can cause a mis-fire code to be generated which most of the time refers to ignition coil since injectors last awhile compared to ignition coils.

What I'm a little confused about(not unusual) or a typo was made in what your picture is showing....why did you not move the # 4 ignition coil around to see if if the code followed to what ever cylinder you chose. Cyl 1 to 5 and plug to 2 to 4 told nothing about ignition coil 4

 

That's a great point
Those notes are from the shop.
That is strange. Swap the coil pack for cyl 4 around and see if the misfire travels seems to be how you'd figure that out.

 

Okay, I think it actually makes sense to diagnose that way.

Coils fire in pairs. Here's a diagram I found. They did it right.

5-2 are connected and
1-4 are connected. So swapping 5 and 1 would check be the way to go.

 

Before I would commit to fuel injectors, I myself would swap ign coil 4 to another spot, clear the codes and see what happens, if anything. It’s 2 10mm bolts and my free labor.

 

Trouble is the truck broke down an hour a way and I'm slammed on jobs everyday through the next few weeks so I've got little ability to DIY anything right now. At the unknown shop's whim. I wish it was at least my local guy.

But yeah, check our the ignition diagram, they did the swap right I'm pretty sure.

 

Honestly, I’d be tempted to pay for a tow truck to have it towed to someone you trust. Anyone who is pushing you to swap 6 injectors when only one is bad, I’d be hesitant to let them do the work. I understand the “while we’re in there” mentality. But … if you’re really concerned, why not call your trusted mechanic and get their 2¢?

I usually offer my customers at least two options. One is budget, it solves the immediate problem, and sometimes kick-the-can. The other is the “let’s nip it in the bud now and not need to think about it for 15-20 years”. The latter is often double or triple the cost, but I want to at least give the options because I never know what their budget is at any given time, and I know I can get them back on the road.

 

I'm leaning towards asking them to do a fuel pressure test and replacing cyl4 injector with an SMP

Thoughts on these injectors?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2266436999...pnIa4s1rZX/NYnxg4xhSRdGHU=|tkp:Bk9SR_r5rcnkZQ

 

You forgot the "wish and a prayer" option which is dumping some PEA in the tank and slapping the bumper

 

I don't buy auto parts on fleaBay or scAmazon, and you shouldn't either.

 

$1800 later, leaving the shop. I get about 30 miles and cyl 2 starts misfiring.

I say fuck it and drive it home (CEL only flashed once).

I decide to throw in a fuel filter and see if it'll help, I'm at wits end.

I go underneath the truck and realize.... THERE IS NO FUEL FILTER

When I got my frame redone 2 years ago, I don't think they put a fuel filter back on.

I had just bought the truck so I don't know what it looked like before that well, but there's no fuel filter on this thing. Unbelievable. Shame on me for not realizing sooner I guess.

What a weird situation.

 

Should be right here on the drivers side, right?

@Shifty

 

I'm not shifty but you're correct, in fact you can see the 2 bolt holes in your picture that is for the fuel filter bracket as seen on my 04 DC.

 

Crazy. It's been like this for at least 3 years.

No wonder I'm getting misfires...

I think I'll need to get some compression fittings to create the connections on either side. Or the dealership should make it right and put the fuel filter in for free...

 

That's wild, but honestly, if that shop (which, like I said, I thought was full of shit, and wasn't doing ample testing before spending your money) didn't fix the problem, but did replace all the injectors, and just had you spend all that money, then I think they should at least refund you for the labor.

Clearly you wouldn't be in this position if they did the proper diagnostics. All they had to do was swap two f'ing injectors and monitor for misfire. Or offer to replace the one. What a load of horseshit.

That's one of those deals I would've put on my American Express, then disputed the charge after-the-fact if they don't agree to remove the labor. Best case is, they remove the labor, and you have new injectors you didn't need. Worst case is, they don't do anything, and you dispute it with your credit card company, and potentially get all your money back. Or if you have a shitty credit card company, they reject it.

 

While opinions vary on the importance of that filter, IMHO it's definitely better to have that filter than not especially for folks who aren't picky about where they get their gas.

 

$1800 for injectors. Picked it up from the shop and there was still a misfire. Made it home on backroads, low RPM, no choice. No CEL flashing except when you'd give it major gas.

Had them tow it back from where I live and they said it was a spark plug wire. Crazy because those wires are less than 2 years old, but they're whatever brand the shop put in after I was having a no start issue 2 years ago. Kind of fishy to me. I can't tell if everything was just going weird, or if this shop was sketch.

They said the engine is getting tired and that there's scoring. They only mentioned scoring until late in the process. Everything was looking good until they messed up. I don't know what's going on. Next step is to take it to Toyota and hash out the missing fuel filter. Somehow two year battery is going bad too. Just bad luck I guess. Good grief.

 

Yeah, I had a gut feel on that shop, that they were full of shit. And what you just described makes it sound as if, yes, they're really full of shit.

 

Charged the battery overnight and had it tested at a parts shop. Apparently it was good.

Replaced air filter which was nasty.

Still getting these long cranks that I can interrupt by pumping the pedal. So something's up with the fuel system.

Wondering how the fuel filter factors in because it never cranked this long pre-injectors when the filter was still missing.

I'm going to clean the throttle body, MAF and try and get Toyota to fix their mistake.

If it's still getting long cranks I may open the can of worms and ask this shop to check their work if they'll play ball. If an injector is leaking... My god we're going to small claims.

Truck idles similarly. Around 1500 rpm then drops to below 1000rpm, around 750rpm and stays there.