Jump ship for a Raptor? Not an easy decision...

I've basically been a lifelong Toyota guy, as has my family. But with that said, my perception (which is perhaps incorrect) is that all the new technology in the Gen 3 Tundras seems to have leveled the playing field a bit in terms of "reliability". In other words, the famed reliability from the 2nd/2.5 gen Tundras hasn't carried over to the 3rd gens. That's not a criticism, because I think we all acknowledge that all the fancy electronics/tech is just more prone to issues. That's not Toyota's fault, just the nature of where things are today.

So, I'm preparing to leave my 2012 second gen, which has been rock solid for 170k miles, and move to something newer. It's just time and I'm ready. Since I do a lot of driving on rough gravel, two track trails, mountain/Forest service trails (not rock crawling) I want off-road upgrades no matter what I buy. So, 35" tires, upgraded suspension, lift, etc.

It has crossed my mind that it might just be easier to move to a Ford Raptor, it's basically turn key. I don't have to figure anything out for upgrades. Just buy it and it's set up for my needs. At this stage in my life, convenience is worth something. I can pick up a used 2024 Raptor with under 10k miles on it for just over 70k. And like I alluded to earlier, I might not be giving up significant reliability like I would've been 5-10 years ago. Ford seems to have fixed the cam phaser issues in the Gen 3. However, the transmission issues do have me a little concerned. Ford's 10r80 seems to be a lingering problem that Ford does not have an answer for. Some of those issues are minor, like clunky shifting. While some are continuing issues that create PIA repeated visits to Ford dealerships (that type of thing really annoys me). Of course, the worst end of that spectrum requires complete replacements or rebuilds of the transmission, which are undoubtedly the conclusion to repeated visits to the dealership to troubleshoot(did I mention repeated visits really annoy me?).

The alternative is to buy a 3rd gen Tundra. Likely a 2024/25 limited and just buy aftermarket off-road front and rear bumpers, aftermarket suspension, and 35" tires. But when it's all said and done, I'll be in the same price range and I don't really have the time to install all these things myself like I did with my 2nd gen. But performance wise, it will be close enough to a raptor.

Long term, the shock replacement options for the Raptor are cheaper. I might not understand the process completely, but it sounds like I can participate in an exchange system for the raptor fox shocks and for ~1200 bucks I can replace them as needed with a rebuilt set. Someone correct me there if I'm wrong. However, I live above the salt line, and I do wonder if I'd be happier in a Tundra with Elka shocks (aluminum) that don't corrode like the Fox shocks will. But with the Tundra, there's no exchange program I'm aware of. I'd have to buy a new set to replace or find a temporary substitute to send in my primary shocks for rebuild, and wait for them to come back and then swap again. Kind of PIA compared to an exchange program that I think I can get with the raptor shocks.

Minor things I'm laboring over. Ford comes with auto start and I can do it from my phone, Tundra does not. Ford comes with front locker(not really a big need), Tundra does not. Tundra might get slightly better gas mileage, but has a smaller tank. Tundra, even with aftermarket suspension, is better suited for towing my 6x10 enclosed trailer/boat. But I don't do any heavy towing, so that isn't really a make or break decision.

Once I buy, I intend to drive for a while. As stated, I'm still in my 2012 and I would likely want to drive this for 10 or so years before looking at changing again.

I'm curious to hear some thoughts here....TIA

 

Personally for your use case I'd just buy the Raptor. The 3.5 Ecoboost is now a proven powerplant, Toyota's 3.4 not so much and a lot of the transmission issues with Ford's 10 speed can be corrected by yourself using the free Forscan and resetting and or disabling the autolearn parameters etc.

I hear you about the repeated trips to a dealer and one of the things I like about my F-150 (2016) and our sons (2018) is that so far we have been able to diagnose and fix the few things that have popped up, misfires easily fixed by replacing the coils, and a reset of his 2018 10spd which cured his transmission issues. I have broken 2 exhaust studs, one under warranty and one on my dime but has been fine since and that's not an issue on the newer trucks.

 

Not to shortcut the thinking but...

1. test drives answer soooooo many questions. some you didn't even know you had.

2. this isn't a slight I promise but maybe ask on a Ford forum what people thought about their Raptors? I mean the actual owners of them will have the most to share.

Good luck!

 

Can't comment on a Raptor, never had one but my coworker liked his except for the towing limitations. He used an old 250 to tow since his Raptor couldnt handle his boat.

Used vehicles arent like they used to be. I remember hearing "you lose 30% of the value driving off the lot in a new car!" and that simply isnt even close to true anymore. Prices are much closer to new after COVID and havent really went down.
If I were looking at a TRD Pro (Limited with lipstick) or a Raptor I definitely wouldnt be looking used. I just know the kind of people that drive them in my area and trade/sell early abuse the piss out of them.

I was in a point in my life like you where my time/effort are worth money to me, and I bought new so I didnt have to worry about what someone else did to my truck. If you could get a Limited Tundra or a F150 Tremor and upgrade them to what you want, thats the route i would go. I got the extended warranty and dont worry about it for 8yrs.

Let us know what you decide though! Excited to see whatever you end up going with.

 

You know your second point was my first thought. But, and this is completely my opinion, I think raptor owners are far less objective than tundra owners. It’s one thing I’ve appreciated about this forum, tundra owners are usually willing to admit or talk about where Tundras/toyota falls short. The overwhelming answer from a raptor forum is(I’m confidently speculating here)….”buy a raptor”.

 

I don't blame you. I also agree that Toyota went the opposite direction on the 3rd gen. They had a proven platform to learn from and decided, nah we are going to wing it and start from scratch. I personally dont keep my vehicles too long, so technically I can switch to any manuf for a while and switch to the next, just as easy. I currently went backwards, way back. Sold my 2020 and bought a 98 GMC Z71, but I also did buy a 2025 Acura MDX. Maybe in the near future I will lease a 3rd gen, maybe not. Seems that the days of long term reliability has been switched for long term money goals, this goes for all manufs. I don't think you can honestly buy any vehicle today and drive it for 10+ years almost problem free.

 

I’d choose the Raptor over a 3rd gen right now. In a few months if there are no more 2025 Tundras blowing up, I’d be back on the Tundra train.

 

I'd go with the Raptor for sure, mine have all been rock solid. That being said, I'd try to find 2024 since the 2025's deleted so many features.

 

Gen 2 owners are objective FFS?
Buy the Raptor.

 

I was a Ford guy for years, while working at a Toyota factory for years. In your case I would go with Raptor, I still love Fords dash layout & raptors ride really good. The only downside and is why I switched to Toyota is the unrelenting recalls & issues Ford has, & their service departments are the ones getting it all. I do love my Tundra, but the Raptor is an off road beast.

 

Ford says they make more vehicles and employ more workers than any other American auto manufacture. They also have more recalls than any other American auto maker. Guess that metric should provide some
guidance. Hey it is your money so you decide how to spend it. GL.

 

"Ford seems to have fixed the cam phaser issues in the Gen 3."
Uh... well, I had a 2017 F150 3.5L EcoBoost with tow package...
My Gen3 (3.5L EcoBoost) was rebuilt 3 times for Cam phaser and timing chain 'stretch':
- 2X under factory warranty
- 1X under extended warranty

"However, the transmission issues do have me a little concerned. Ford's 10r80 seems to be a lingering problem that Ford does not have an answer for. Some of those issues are minor, like clunky shifting."
The Ford tranny was a hot mess as well... never seemed to know what gear to be in.

That said, my 2024 Tundra tranny shifts well but does have that annoying lag at startup... it literally left stuck in an intersection last week when I accelerated after a quick stop. It felt like it was starting in 3rd gear.

 

There a guy at work asking about the Tundra. How his i think a 2020 GMC Sierra transmission is starting to give him trouble and several other GM truck owners having their fair of problems also. He doesn't want a new Chevy as they are having transmission problems still.

You either get lucky or you just don't. 2026 Tundra will be coming out soon

 

Get a low mileage 2.5 and slap a 2650 Maggie on it and you're set. I've seen some 21's at 10K miles. I am in process of replacing my 2013 with this setup. Will be my second supercharged Tundra if I find the right candidate.

 

I’d go raptor if I were you. The Tundra is never going to meet it in terms of performance, even if you go through the work of upgrading tires, wheels, suspension, etc. The capability and comfort of the 3rd gen Raptor is ridiculous compared to the Toyota. Not even close.

ETA: the tundra won’t beat the Raptor in terms of performance UNLESS you go big with long travel and some other major upgrades.

 

Coming from a life long Ford guy who's literally never owned anything but a Ford and I've been building and drag racing them for over 20 years......I just bought a 25 Tundra TRD OR

Fords QC has been abysmal ever since covid and this idiot CEO Farley has only been making it worse.

The reason I didn't buy another F150 after trading my 2014 in on the Tundra is the number of issues/recalls and general software problems with the truck that Ford never can seem to fix. More importantly Ford doesn't stand by a damn thing when you have serious issues, the dealers make you feel like a criminal bringing it in compared to Toyota. Ford customer service is 20 years behind brand like Toyota.

The 3.5TT is a great motor but not without it's faults... Timing chain issues, phasers, vacuum pump problems, etc.

The worst part of them is the 10 speed.... It hunts like Elmer fud 24/7 to decide what gear it should be in. They still have CDF drum issues even with the revised parts, valve body solenoid issues, and the list goes on. Ford and GM collaborated on that 10 speed design and they're both still having significant problems.

If/when they release custom tuning for 24+ F150 they can clean allot of the transmission issues up but they still haven't figured out how to crack the ECU encryption.

The QC on the Tundra is 5x better any Ford that I've seen.

The raptor is a sweet truck, it's your cash but I personally wouldn't be of the mindset that it's significantly better build quality than the Tundra.

 

If Ford does better build quality on their halo trim than their best selling XLT trim, then it might be ok to go Raptor. If it's on par with my XLT.... well I had it for 9 months before I traded it for a 2025 Tundra. The fit and materials in the Tundra are better, except for the center console. That's the one thing that feels cheap in mine.

To Ford's credit, they did a lot of stuff right/better than Toyota. The infotainment system is far more useful and has a much better layout in the Ford, and their digital dash is pretty impressive. Their remote start is more convenient with an actual button on the FOB and it doesn't shut off when you unlock the door to get in. I know that one is a big deal to some, but not for me.

That said, there were just too many things off with a brand new truck for me to keep it.

1. My whole grille assembly was out of alignment by about a quarter inch to one side.
2. My driver front window started unrolling itself back to the half way point after I would roll it up.
3. The transmission started acting up with hard shifts when coming to a stop. I actually checked my mirrors because I though somebody hit me from behind. Took multiple visits to get them to put a tech on it and reprogram it. Less than a month later it started doing it again. Ford keeps doing band-aids and saying they fixed it until the next round of complaints. They don't like to acknowledge the issue. On the forum I joined for it there's a guy with a new truck that had the transmission die with 500 miles on it. Top that off with the shitty "it's one in a half million trucks, it happens, if you don't have confidence in the brand then go elsewhere" attitude on the forum for any kind of issues.... it just wasn't a fun ownership experience for me.
4. The driver seat makes a popping noise when turning. Made me thing a bolt was loose and that it was skipping up the threads, but it wasn't. It's a known issue with their power seats an affects tons of different models, not just the F150. They have a redneck fix for it, which would be fine if it were a new problem, but it's been going on for over a decade. It's a known problem that should be easily fixed at the production level, but again they don't acknowledge there's an issue.

I really really tried to like the F150 because it's the last V8 in the 1/2 ton segment that I think is worth a shit, and that 5.0 is pretty damn great. I was thinking to myself "give it time and it'll grow on you" because I was thinking I had only owned it for a couple months... then I checked my calendar and it had been 9 months of driving a truck I didn't feel I could trust and I didn't enjoy, despite the great engine. That was the final straw and the next weekend I traded it. I've been loving the Tundra since, though I do wish they had kept the 5.7.


TL;DR - They all have problems. I'm more comfortable with how Toyota has handled them.

 

What a point in history. This has to be the worst time to buy a vehicle with confidence. I and several friends are in the same situation, we don't NEED a new truck, our current trucks are fine, work well, reliable and with years of service ahead of them. We all have the money, buy cash so finance rates don't matter but never in my 50 years of driving has there been a time when NONE of the manufacturers make a truck that I WANT to drive. Frankly they all suck, even the almighty Toyota of which I've owned several. Best being for us was my wife's pre-COVID Avalon. That car exemplified Toyota quality in every way.

 

I was a Ford guy for years. I owned five Ford trucks, but I've never owned a Raptor. The best of the bunch was a 2012 King Ranch which I drove for ten years. I traded my 2012 for a 2022 King Ranch.

The 2022 was by far the worst truck I have ever owned. Every couple of weeks there would be a new nuisance issue, but the biggest issue was a drivetrain shudder. The dealer replaced the torque converter, but that didn't fix the shudder. It spent weeks in the shop at two different dealers. Finally, one of the dealers told me the transmission was bad and needed to be replaced.

I also was also speaking weekly with a Ford customer care rep as they monitored what the dealers were doing. Finally, the dealer told me that Ford would not allow them to replace the transmission. Since the problem was so prevalent in their trucks, Ford considered the shudder to be a normal characteristic of their 10R80 transmission. The Ford customer care rep also told me that Ford considered the characteristics my truck was exhibiting (the shudder) to be normal for the 10R80. So, Ford refused to fix the drivetrain shudder I had. I resolved at that point that I would never again do business with Ford, so I traded the 2022 King ranch (with an active safety recall) for my 2024 Tundra and so far, I couldn't be happier.

I spent a lot of time on the F-150 forums during the time I had the 2022 Ford and there were a lot of other people with the same drivetrain issue, but there were many others who had no shudder. My biggest complaint is not that the truck had a shudder, it's that Ford wouldn't address a known problem with some of their transmissions.

 

Had a 23 f150 2.7 ecoboost super crew fx4. Replaced it with my tundra. Put 22k on the ford. Trans was terrible in it, fit and finish was sub par compared to my current tundra. Sold my 18 pro taco for the f150 since I have 3 kids. Couldn’t pay me to own another ford.

as mentioned above ever since Covid their quality and customer service has taken a serious turn for the worst.

 

Coming from a 17 Raptor with lots of issues. Some major some minor. Final straw was the transmission failing and sputtering while driving. Traded for a 4x4 Limited. I do miss some things about the raptor but overall think I made a good choice. Toyota customer service is much better than Ford

 

Is this a joke…..
A Ford

 

I jumped ship...couldnt be happier. Raptor is better in every imaginable way from my previous trucks. (my opinion)

• Cam phaser issues were fixed ~ 2020. There is a SW fix or a HW fix. Its supposed to be during start up that issue occurs (low oil press)
• 10 speed trans issues were addressed in 2024 with the CDF drum. Its again...supposed to fix issues.

I have about 3k total miles on gen3 raptor without issues...its early to tell but I love this truck. My brother has a 17 f150 platinum with 201k miles. Original engine and transmission , never an issue to this day.

I am a Toyota guy at heart. I've owned .....06 4runner V8 (total chaos LT) , 11 Tacoma supercharged , 13 tacoma supercharged , 99 4runner supercharged, 04 single cab tacoma , 20 Tundra.

To be fair I never owned a 3rd gen Tundra so take my opinion as you see fit.

 

That's the problem, buying a vehicle today is a lottery. Do you feel lucky?

 

Adding to this, I've owned 4 Raptors, 2020, 2021, 2022,and a 2024 that were all problem free and better build quality than my 2022 Capstone Tundra. New Tundras are better built than the 2022 for sure, I have (2) 2025's Tundras in my work fleet that have been perfect as well. The cam phasers were fixed in 2020 and most of these other issues are blown out of proportion. If you want a Raptor, buy a Raptor and you won't regret it. Either vehicle will make you happy, but the Raptor is in a different league.

 

Wow! That's a $42,000 box to check for a V8 and some shocks, plus a few stickers. (That's Canadian $$$$)

 

I would have to go against people like DFS who have owned a couple more Raptors than me.

I had a 2011 flame blue (rare) double cab model. While it was mostly trouble free mechanically, the plastic sunroof frame broke into pieces and was a $1200 dollar out of pocket to fix, also my blend door went out and it would not go into various vent modes. A 30-dollar part was roughly $2k in labor because they had to disassemble the whole dash.

My 2018, was okay but had a clunking cam phaser, the driver's side rear defroster element would not work, and the transmission clunked. In both scenarios I had take offs which I would have rebuilt and then run them. As Ford went up to larger Fox shocks this became less feasible to do. A new pair of shocks for the Raptor is $8k large. Sending them to Fox to have them rebuilt isn't bad but then you are out of a truck for a little while. If you run the swap outs, then you are probably more than likely getting very used and abused take offs from some one's else's ride which are hit or miss. To me the juice became worse than the squeeze plus you get no more wow that is a Raptor especially since they make a Ranger and Bronco model. The quality of the Toyota is overall better and the electronics in it is light years beyond Ford's SYNC junk. At the end of the day, it is your call, and you have to buy what you are more comfortable with. I do not regret selling my Raptor for my Tundra and would do it again. The Raptor is not the be all end all machine it once was, and going to Ford Performance and mass production has definitely watered down a once premium brand.

GL with your decision,

 

I think he did say OR a Nissan Titan!!!!!!

Now, I'm hearing that another guy at work has a i think 2020 mustang GT500. Has had multiple problems and now with the transmission!!!! You win some you lose some