Tundra engine recall - interesting news

The Feds would ask Toyota to explain how they are handling the recall and make sure the recall is done properly for the affected engines. Expanding the dates and including other powertrains would be unlike anything I’ve ever seen the Feds do myself.

 

I hear you. Maybe I should have said, why isn't the NHSTA challenging Toyota to expand the dates and other powertrains. Surely they must know by now there is more affected than what the safety recall currently covers. I sure hope they are not turning a blind eye to all this and people don't get hurt in the meantime.

 

I would not count on much from the NHSTA in the next several years. Just sayin.

 

Yep, anyone remember Audi Sudden Acceleration?

https://www.autosafety.org/audi-sudden-acceleration/

 

I have 2023 Tundra with a 1/23 build date, while the build date is within the affected range, have not received a notice and checking via VIN says not included. Really just wishing for straightforward answers and transparency Is it REALLY so much to ask that an $80k+ vehicle run solid and be dependable?

 

It really shouldn’t be too much to ask. But on the other hand, the stuff that makes that truck $80k vs an SR or SR5 has nothing to do with improving dependability.

 

Most likely situation where as a specific production range exceeded a tolerable failure rate, (say for instance 1% or more). but subsequent production failure rates have fallen below that into a more "expected" failure rate of say 0.58% or so. Yes you hear of one here or there failing, but not at frequency of earlier production runs. No manufacturer including Toyota can ever boast a perfect non failure rate. There may be some valid points of "bring back the big V8 engines" due to the "lazy 8" phenomenon whereas this big engine spends most of it's life running under relatively light load, hense lasts a long time vs small engine "working for a living" so to speak. Modern fuel economy and emission targets make large displacement engines in light vehicles obsolete. The few left on the market get by using variable displacement systems such as GM's active fuel management or Stellantis MDS multi displacement systems (That both create their own can of worms)

 

My turn to drop off my truck. Gotta take off the JB4 and ethanol sensor tonight

 

Another GX 550 Engine Failure

 

Scratch the GX off the wife's list. I'm sure the new Seqouias will suffer the same fate. No idea what to get her now.

 

Land Cruiser?

 

No 4 bangers please. Got big things to tow.

 

A gently used 200 series is where we ended up. Smoothest driving / riding vehicle I’ve ever been in.

 

I don’t know that I would tow a lot with a 200. From hanging out at Mud, it seems they have more temp issues. The coolant valley leak seems more common than with Tundras and Sequoias. Those who tow and monitor temps show them quite a bit hotter even with an external cooler. And there’s the weird 200 series fuel boiling issue that I’ve never heard of with Tundras or Sequoias.

My wife wants a bigger vehicle. We’ll probably replace the LX with a 2020-2022 Sequoia.

 

A coworker got the LandCruiser. Transmission blew up within first 3k miles. Toyota had it for almost two months, he just got it back. Toyota slipping, no pun intended

 

Just purchased a 10 year/100k mile platinum warranty (I only drive 5-6k/year)… time to stop worrying about the replacement engines failing.

 

¿Que?

 

As long as you’re within your 3 year/36k mile original bumper to bumper warranty you can purchase an extension. They’re usually expensive when they’re offered when you buy your truck but there are a few dealerships online that sell them for very reasonable prices. It’s the zero deductible platinum warranty directly through Toyota and any dealer in the lower 48 will honor it.

 

Just want to add some data and context for you guys. Would appreciate your thoughts.

Had my engine replaced January 19-21, drove 1,200 miles and did an oil change.

To no one's surprise, I found some metal flakes in the oil drain pan. However, these were very small and few in number, especially compared to my 1st oil change about 3 years ago.

Conclusion is that debris is till there. However, these type of debris have always been there with older cars, including Toyotas. A quick google search reveals similar findings in last-gen Tacomas and many other vehicles and brands. This has always been considered a normal condition mitigated by oil filter capturing the debris, gentle break-in period and in some cases early oil changes. Low-strung Toyota engines, combined with conservative driving habits never posed an issue for Toyota in the past.

For reference, newer high performance engines, say from Porsche, have a completely different manufacturing process and do not suffer a debris problem at all. I remember a thread on rennlist, where a Porsche engineer was claiming that early break-in oil changes were a waste in newer Porsches since current manufacturing processes result in no metal debris at all.

Toyota, as all of you know, is a conservative company and likely has not changed its manufacturing at all. Therefore, engines have had debris and continue having them. The only issue with this Tundra is that this engine is one of the highest performance mass-market engines Toyota has produced.

Ridiculous torque / load in low RPMs + metal debris + low viscosity oil + tiniest oil filter + heavy foot during engine break-in results in bearing failure in the long run.

The above theory would suggest that Hybrid cars will be less susceptible to this type of failure as the hybrid electric motor will fill in torque, resulting in significantly lower loads on the bearings, especially at low RPMs. The google spreadsheet may seem to somewhat support this, and possible part-reason why Toyota did not include hybrids in the recall.

Anyway, I think Toyota has improved the manufacturing and debris content, at least in my singular experience. Yes, there is still debris. Even the recall specifically mentioned "specific size and amount" (see pic below). This would also suggest that Toyota believes that reducing the amount of debris, not necessarily eliminating them, will significantly lower or eliminate the failures.

Time will tell. I did not baby too much or floor the car during break-in, but changed oil at 1K. Will be running M1 esp 0w30, oil analysis every 3 oil changes, and hope for the best. Will post my 1st oil analysis when in.

PS: I cannot believe the size of the oil filter Toyota is using for the Tundra.

 

Running 0-30? Interesting, I’d like to hear theory behind that. The Tundra oil filter is about the same size as our Subaru Crosstrek oil filter.

 

Dinky Tundra oil filter is about the same size as my motorcycle's oil filter.

 

I ran 0w-30 in my previous Tundra. The theory is that you get the same the protection at startup and more protection at temperature.

The owners manual on my 5.7 tundra said something about chosing a thicker oil for more protection during hard use.

I drove my 25 tundra like a little old lady for breakin. It saw WOT for the first time last night 950 miles.

 

I bet it was fun!

 

Maybe a new process for engines coming off the line should be: warm up, change oil and filter *before* installing in vehicle. Could it literally be as simple as the smallish oil filter getting clogged with debris? I guess it would be hard to determine as the filter could get flooded with debris when it grenades, so how do you know if it was clogged before or after?

And would that explain why there are still a few failures of the long blocks coming off the new line. The above seems like as plausible an explanation as any. The engine is a good design with nothing inherently wrong with it but there's a glaring problem in the production process that Toyota wasn't expecting. If that is the case with Porsche, Toyota should be touring their engine manufacturing plant. Might be hard to scale up the numbers from Porsche level to Toyota levels though.

 

It gets up and moves!

Changed mine at 660 miles. I didn't keep the filter to cut open though...

 

Every new engine will shed a small amount of metals, and other materials, during the break-in period.

Porsche engines are no exception.

 

Oil filter ain’t the problem with the debris. They are tiny, and I wouldn’t dare go 10k miles on one of those myself, but that’s anecdotal and not science. I run the much larger M1-301A mobile 1 oil filter on my 2UZ for the extra filtering capacity and the extra 0.5qts of oil it holds. Both help with engine oil life and may help a little with oil cooling (more oil, more filter external surface area). Still change my oil annually or at 7,500 miles, whichever comes first. In a turbo application with the oil under greater stress and its function being of extra importance to lube and cool the turbos, as well as chain tensioner and likely VVtI solenoid function, I would be doing 5k changes with a high quality synthetic and I would also prefer to run either the factory filter (likely in this scenario due to the engine failure possibility and need for warranty replacement) or if a true remedy was presented or was out of warranty, I would find an oversized filter to run its place.

 

Yup, the metal parts moving over each other for the first 500 miles or so will seat and self clearance a little bit producing some small wear metals in the oil. Same is true for new gears in a differential.

 

I thought Toyota revised the bearings in addition to improved cleaning?

 

Engine bearing lubrication falls within hydrodynamic part of the lubrication curve, which is determined by thickness of the oil and the speed the surfaces interact at. Low viscosity and low rpm with load will result in more bearing wear. Therefore, increasing viscosity of the oil will results in less bearing wear.

In terms of your crossTrek, that car has a small engine and hardly an engine that produces high output or load like the 3.4L in the Tundra.