Tundra timing chain rattle….again

Hello Forum

unfortunately I am back. I replaced the two main tensioners on my 5.7 tundra a few months ago.

On a cold start, there is a very faint timing chain rattle on the drivers side still. I installed new tensioners, installed correctly and the noise is relatively quiet and goes away once I start driving the truck.


I sure as hell ain’t changing those tensioners again, what a nightmare of a job.

Can anyone speak to why this may be still rattling even after changing tensioners?
Thank you

 

Following as I have the timing chain rattling and will be addressing it soon.

Sorry you’re dealing with this @Krys_tundra

here are the only things I can think of off the top of my head given my very basic understanding of this motor:

1. Tensioner oiler port is clogged causing the tensioner to be starved for oil and it’s on its way out again.

• How did the guides look. Was there excessive wear that would allow for slack in the chain?
• I know the chain is a lifetime product but any chance it could have stretched?

That’s all I got.

 

I’ve seen some people report using valvoline restore and protect oil resolving this issue due to its ability to clean up dirt and varnish. Could be worth trying it for a couple rounds of oil changes.

https://www.tundras.com/threads/valvoline-restore-protect.151541/#post-3841053

 

What oil grade do you use?

 

Hey all

I use 0w20 as I live in northern Canada.

there is a chance chain has stretched but would that not result in a CEL? The other two can shaft to camshaft tensioners were nice and springy, I believe this issue is still noise off the main tensioner on the drivers side. I was going to replace the guides but after removal they looked so good I didn’t even bother, there was barely any marks/grooves and I am around 250k km/150k miles

I don’t think the oil port to the tensioner is plugged. Once I drive the truck it seems to go away and stay away, it’s only noisy after cold starts.

 

Did you measure how far out the original tensioners were? When you go in to do this kind of work most just replace the chains as they cost very little. At a minimum, you must asses how much the chains have loosened. The tensioner has a limited amount of travel and can only deal with a limited amount of chain strtch. Did you replace just the two main or all four? If the former, did you measure the tensioner travel on the cam chains?

 

I replaced the main two tensioners. The secondary and chains stayed original.

I was hoping to do this without removing the chains as I did not want to have to worry about timing the engine. Unfortunately, when I removed the tensioner the chain skipped and I had to retime the entire engine anyways. Knowing what I know now, I would have replaced all 4 tensioners and change.

I did not measure the length of the tensioner but it definitely was not at full extension when I installed and pulled the pin on it to engage.

 

What brand was the new tensioners?

I would try a different oil brand, too. With higher molybdenum content. Maybe higher viscosity, too, like 0w30.

 

Hey VTL, I can try new oil. Definitely an easy option.

I used Cloyes tensioners, which from my understanding is a reputable timing part company.

 

I personally don't use anything non-OE in critical corners. Have been redoing wreckage caused by parts from reputable brands in past. Work is often more expensive than the parts even when you do everything yourself. Time is still money.

My understanding a tensioner can be biting instead of sliding. A thicker oil with better lubricity (esters, molybdenum, ...) may help here. A cheap option to try.

 

Understandable, I went with cloyes which was significantly cheaper than oem Toyota. My logic was the Toyota ones have already failed and are about 5x the cost of the cloyes. I was hoping to get another 5 years out of this truck. Unfortunately living in the rust belt, I don’t think it will last much longer.

Currently running Kirkland 0w20, maybe I’ll try a more expensive oil like you had said. Havent had issues with this oil before

 

This issue of repeated failure after using non-OEM parts comes up often enough I’d never consider doing it.

 

Understandable. In my situation, the truck is near end of life and I find it difficult to justify spending 5x the price (oem tensioners were roughly 500$ after shipping and taxes)

As for an update, the noise is completely gone. Warm start, cold start, it is gone. Even with the very cold weather moving through western Canada currently.

The truck sat roughly 6 weeks through cold weather, I wonder if this played a role in the intermittent noise.

 

What made it disappear? Did you swap oils?

 

In my experience. If a car already has a slight timing chain rattle. Extended periods of sitting they tend to rattle alot more on start up.

My rsx had a rattle that most people thought it was a timing chain tensioner. It was really the vtc gear failing. It was either clogged or the oil would drain out. If there was alot of extended oil changes that could be an issue

 

I didn’t do anything other than drive it. If the rattle comes back I will update.
It should be noted that the rattle that was there was quite faint. Before I changed the tensioner it sounded like it was going to blow apart it was rattling so bad.

 

Is the rattle coming from the same place? If it is very faint, have you listened up by the injectors? I know it sounds a little off the wall, but I had what I thought was a faint timing chain rattle, but it was actually an injector. and yes, before i get jumped on, I know what a rattle sounds like. I've had to replace tensioners before. Noisy injectors can sound somewhat the same but give more of a faint ticking noise. Mine still has it, but I only hear it with the hood open.

 

Difficult to say. It was definitely from the drivers side but I did not remove the oil fill tube to confirm the noise like I did to confirm before replacing tensioners.

It was a very faint noise. The truck sat for a few weeks in very cold weather prior, so I am guessing the oil galleries were completely drained at that point

 

Hello everyone

We had some very nice temperatures this week outside. The noise came back. I am not convinced this is a tensioner issue, I am wondering if there is an issue with oil getting to the tensioner.

The oem tensioner I removed when replacing the tensioners moved freely. It was not gummed up, it was not dirty and it did not bind. This new cloyes tensioner moved very easily, was machined nice and looked to be the exact same as the oem one.

I am going to run seafoam through this oil and change it. Only have about 1500km on this oil change but due to cold weather (multiple weeks of -30 to -40C) I imagine there is some oil dilution to some degree as I idled the truck 10-15 minutes to warm it up on the extreme days.

Will update when I change the oil after seafoam

 

Pulled the oil fill tube and confirmed it’s the tensioner. It is slightly bouncing causing the tapping noise. I’m not convinced it’s a tensioner issue, I am leaning towards oil pressure getting to the tensioner being an issue.
Seafoam is in the engine, I’ll run it for the week and update.


After some digging some people have commented the tensioners are given pressure from oil port that is sealed with a rubber seal shaped like a number 8. Can anyone comment? Maybe I have a bad seal that’s leaking?

I noticed this time around that when I removed the oil fill tube, the timing chain was throwing ALOT of oil around. I don’t remember it doing this when I removed the tube in the very beginning of this issue (pre-new tensioner)

 

So, I F'd up once and learned something about this timing chain tensioner issue...If I understand your initial post, my story will apply. If not, ignore me.

I correctly diagnosed this issue on a customer's Tundra back in 2018, I think. This is the first time our shop had witnessed this issue. So, I was wading into new territory.

I pinpointed the issue to the driver's side primary chain tensioner. I tore the timing cover off, replaced the bad tensioner, and reassembled it. Test drove the truck and noticed the tapping noise up the initial cold start but never heard it again. 5 days later, the customer returned upset that the noise had returned. I was scratching my head and upset. I was certain I fixed the issue. I confirmed the same tensioner failed.

Long story short, after banging my head against the wall. I went into the warranty parts bin & found the original tensioner. There was my sign, the gasket that goes with this driver's side primary chain tensioner was still attached to the tensioner. I never re-installed it with the new OEM tensioner. It was a very Homer Simpson moment... I figured this out after digging through the 3ur-fe "New Car Features" publications from circa 2007. This was published by Toyota at some point. This document was buried in the Toyota Information System website. The document states (to the best of my memory) that in initial testing, engine oil pressure was an issue at the driver's side primary chain tensioner. To improve oil pressure, an engineer came up with a gasket that could store oil and increase the pressure with different port sizes. (see image below for this gasket; I circled it in red)



I again replaced that driver-side primary chain tensioner with a new one and a new gasket (for free of course, no cost to anyone but my time). It's been fixed ever since.

Learn from me, do not forget that fucking oil pressure manipulating gasket...oh and don't be silly, Just buy OEM Toyota parts. OEM parts are worth the investment.

 

Honestly this is one thing I ran over in my head multiple times when the issue came back. I definitely installed the gasket; I went back and looked at the photos I took to ease my mind. Lesson learned on using non oem stuff, seems ridiculous that an aftermarket tensioner only lasted a month.

I appreciate you posting. I guarantee that someone will find it useful one day.


Edit - did you change the gaskets/o rings you originally replaced such as oil pump, oil filter housing, etc (assuming you changed them when you opened timing Dover the first time) I don’t see an issue reusing the gaskets as they are only a couple months old and have maybe 1500-2000km of use.

 

Umm I do not recall. Play it safe and replace the gaskets/o-rings with new ones.

 

For anyone that has done this job, did the Toyota tensioner fix it long term?

i ordered parts today and the dealer it stating the tensioner will not solve my issue. I need to replace the 4 chains, 4 tensioners, crank gears and chain guides.

**EDIT** they also recommend changing cam phasers on intake and exhaust. I do not think this is remotely necessary.

I think it’s upselling BS. The tensioner is causing the chain to slap around. Last time I had it apart the chain and guide looked perfectly fine.

can anyone chime in please?

 

Okay, based on my experience as a dealer tech with Toyota/Lexus...The primary tensioner on the driver's side is the only one that fails. I have never witnessed damage to the guides, chains, or other timing chain-related components. That does not mean it can not happen. However, the dealer may be recommending replacement of these additional items: 1. to cover their ass from any future failure/liability 2. to upsell and make more money... 3. they are genuinely concerned that these additional items may be damaged based on previous experiences with this specific issue (I am giving them the benefit of the doubt)

I would recommend speaking with your service advisor and state: I only want to replace the damaged or excessively worn timing chain components caused by this failing primary tensioner. I do not want to replace these suggested additional timing chain components based on time/mileage & the "well, while we are in here we could go ahead & replace the following...". I would ask to see the damaged components in person before approving replacement. If you request that, you better be ready to drop what you are doing & get to the dealership so the tech is not waiting around.

Also, I think the Car Care Nut speaks to this specific timing chain issue in this YouTube video. He is always a wealth of knowledge and experience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bsULQcMxlg&t=1265s

Just my two cents. Best of luck.

 

I appreciate your prompt reply. I placed this order online, not at a Toyota service desk as I plan to do the work myself again.

The vendor/dealer states “his experience with those engines, timing chain rattle are not typically fixed by replacing the tensioners; it can improve the rattle, but it typically comes back fairly quickly”

Now this is my exact situation, as stated in the original post here. However I used non oem parts and people seem to be very convinced that is why the issue came back so quickly. I have verified that the noise is the driver side tensioner again.

**edit** @AZEric when the main driver tensioner is replaced, does it seem to permanently solve the issue or is it common for it to fail again soon? Do you know if the driver sides tensioner is fed oil pressure from any of the ports under the valve cover? I recently replaced the o rings and gaskets in there

 

Parts have come in

One thing I have noticed is the new gasket between the tensioner/block appears to be different than the original one in my 07 tundra. I wonder if Toyota made an updated part for this issue?

 

Krys

I had this rattle issue for 60k miles before I addressed it. No amount of seafoam, liquilmoly magic juice or oil brand changes solved the problem.

My truck is actually the one in the tccn YouTube video linked above. Since replacing the tensioner, guides and chains a little over a year and 30k miles ago, the noise has not returned.

I believe I recall AMD telling me the chains and guides looked good, but since we were already that deep in the motor to just replace them and eliminate any potential issues.

 

Thanks for chiming in. I can’t justify doing chains and the whole bit right now. In CAD cdn, it’s about 1900$ for chains, tensioners, gears etc. The truck is near 20 years old, about 250k on the truck and starting to rust.

Very happy to hear that your problem was resolved. Did you notice that the gasket on the drivers side to be different than the oem/original one?

 

I did not, as I didn't see the new parts go in. Although... I actually have basically the entire list of parts to do the tensioner job, all OEM sitting in my garage. I ordered them and was going to tackle it myself, but chickened out and went with a pro. I'll look when I get home and see what the gasket looks like.