Tundra engine recall - interesting news

I know the guy who created that website. We've had a lot of conversations over the years about how his data doesn't align with anyone else's data. Pretty interesting guy.

 

Does it not align because he collects it wrong or does it not align because nobody pays him to align it?

 

I hear that all the time and it is bogus. What JD Power does is collect data via surveys to consumers and then they sell that data to automakers and license out the rights to use their award in the manufacturer's advertising. It is similar to Consumer Reports and every other data collection firm like S&P Mobility.

Automakers use this data to improve their products and they put a lot of importance on the data collection from JD Power and other firms. The fact is it is much cheaper for automakers to buy this data than it would be to collect it on their own.

JD Power does surveys on all sorts of industries all over the world.

Where it gets murky is because JD Power doesn't advertise what the automaker pays for that data and that causes all sorts of conspiracy theories. It is too bad people can't get beyond that, frankly. In the videos I do, I hear all sorts of pushback to anything I report on whether it is CR or JD Power. I think it goes back to the human nature to prove people wrong and that your POV is the only accurate one.

 

Fair enough. I admit I didn't have good reasoning to think JD Power wasn't legit. I just come from the medical field where funding source often drives findings & conclusions, and so I'm always a bit skeptical of the validity of data that an industry-funded company/agency provides

 

He’s the only one who focuses on long-term drivetrain reliability.

“Our study, now called the Long-Term Quality Index, is over four years old and has been designed to focus specifically on those older vehicles that fall off the radar as vehicles age.

Unlike J.D. Power, which focuses their studies on the earliest portions of a vehicles life, and Consumer Reports, which regulates its study to surveys filled out by owners of late model vehicles, LTQI has been designed to assess the long-term reliability of used cars from the point they are three years old to the end of its life cycle.”​

His data comes from independent inspections from ASE certified mechanics and professional car buyers. He focuses on drivetrain issues only and how long a new car buyer keeps the vehicle. Lots more details in at the link in my last post (cc: @FrankG)

This is why no one else’s data aligns. They all focus on initial quality and do not collect data in the same way.

 

I wonder if one could swap the momentary Start/Stop disable for the push-on/push-off switch like the one used for rear emergency braking?

 

I’d like that , I just hit it off everytime I start but it would be nice just to be done without splicing something in

We would need to determine if that function is the switch or the ecu

 

[QUOTE="testerdahl, post: 3831607, member: 110941"it goes back to the human nature to prove people wrong and that your POV is the only accurate one.[/QUOTE]
Bingo. Gen 3 engine threads and forums in general -

 

Correct, he gets data from different sources and has different metrics. It is just hard to take the data seriously.

Here's what I mean. I pulled up the Toyota Tundra. It was last updated in 2023. He gives it an exceptional score for all the model years since the year 2000. Now we all know that's not true. There were plenty of problems with Tundras throughout the years and his data completely misses the 100k engine recall.

He also separates 2007-2015. Why? That doesn't make any sense. It should be 2007-2013 and then 2015-2021. He doesn't mention a 2022- on his charts.

https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Tundra.html

Toyota Tacoma. The yearly quality index is exceptional. Huh? Frame recall?

https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Toyota_Tacoma.html

Then, there's the Dodge Ram. First off it hasn't been Dodge for 16 years. Second off, he gives them high marks for 2002-2009 and then well above age for 2010-2015. The HEMI tick has been a huge part of the issues people have had with the engines going back to its debut in... 2003.

https://www.dashboard-light.com/vehicles/Dodge_Ram.html

Finally, he says all trucks have better reliability than the industry average. I just find that really hard to believe since truck sales make up a majority of all automotive sales in a given year. Statistically, if you build more vehicles of one type, you should have more problems. The Toyota Tundra acing his reports for all time just causes me to doubt the information.

I just struggle with matching up his data with the real-world experiences I hear from owners and the recalls I've covered over the years.

 

Thought the blocks had a slight variation for the hybrid. Are they the same part number?

 

Definitely wouldn't have traded in my 2019 TRD Pro for this.... Hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps helps a 2.5 gen on the fence. Lots of folks in the opposing camp, and happy for them.., just not happy with fit, quality, and the potential grenade under the hood...

 

There is an A on the block number that definerentiates the Hyvrid from the nonhybrid but some members on here say it is the same block which it could be but there are some bigger differences on mounting points bolts and locations and the high voltage system. Who knows for sure though.

 

pseudoRyan.

 

I agree that I’d like to see less arbitrary yearly groupings. And yeah, it needs to be updated.

Regarding the Tundra, the latest model year with posted data is 2019. There isn’t even any data from the 3rd gen Tundra at all, so yeah on initial quality issues like the V35A-FTS recall, you’re not going to see it. That’s what all the other guys are for (JDP, CR, etc). It doesn’t make his data any less valid. Just means it requires a different interpretation.

The last update was even before the recall was announced. Of the 20,005 Tundras inspected, he says 4.18% have engine issues, 3.53% have transmission issues. Total % with issues are 7.15% (some have both engine and transmission issues; this is why the total is less than the sum of engine+drivetrain). People keep them on average for 133.7k miles. I bet the Tundra’s score takes a hit when (if) he gets around to incorporating data from 3rd gens, even if only due to the recall.

If he’s literally just inspecting vehicles for engine and transmission issues after they’ve been unloaded by the first owner, that is highly valuable in and of itself.

The thing I question in his data is: does he control for, say, the first buyer of a Ram needing new lifters or two transmissions before they give up and sell it? (I swear every guy who owns an older Ram I’ve ever talked to says, “hell yeah, it’s reliable. I only had to put a new transmission in it.” ) If Dashboard Light is collecting data from car buyers, that implies the cars are in his data sets are used. Doesn’t seem to control for repairs made during the first owner’s ownership.

Where are you getting that trucks make up a majority of US auto sales? I tried to look it up, and it seems that it is crossovers that dominate.

June ‘21 and ‘22:


Annual crossover/SUV sales in the US:


Annual pickup truck sales in the US:

This would allow for the truck segment to have higher than average marks.

 

I might have misspoke. I just know how important truck sales are, especially commercial, and how most sales results don’t take into account HD and higher truck sales.

 

This would be awesome if it worked. I’d use the button similar to the steering heater. It lights up when it’s on or off. This would be nice if the auto start/stop worked that way.

I’m following in hopes this gets figured out.

 

Interesting as it does make sense. Perhaps I used the incorrect wording here, more or less that specific engine has proven it's long-term reliability.

I am truly glad that stressful time is receding for most and Toyota is taking care of it's customer and brand. For me as a Gen2 owner, I did not want to see Toyota fail on the Tundra or have shortcomings in various ways. I may eye a Gen4+ Tundra down the road and I want nothing to hinder future Tundra project(s) from Toyota. World is full of critics and those that know better. Enjoy your truck brother, you earned it "boost on" as @Breathing Borla would say.

Thanks for the feedback. Sometimes I think back and wished I kept my 2018 vs. the 2021, funny how that works.

 

They are super important—vital even—to about three domestic automakers. Does any of Volkswagen’s brands even build a proper pickup truck? I don’t believe so, at least in our market. Toyota doesn’t even build a pickup the size of the Tundra anywhere else in the world. Nissan discontinued their fullsize truck here. But every single automaker makes a crossover/SUV.

It makes sense to me that DL wouldn’t include commercial vehicles in his data set. The goal is to show consumers how long used cars will serve their primary function—getting a person from A to B. It’s not perfect, but it is valuable as people keep and maintain vehicles longer than ever these days (avg 12.6 yrs), citing the prices of new cars as the reason.

 

IMO, it’s easier to price out long term extended warranties if you want to see what actuaries predict for reliability and durability. If you want to consider resale, check out all in lease prices (down payment, monthly, MSDs, etc). Banks, insurance companies, etc don’t lose money on leases or extended warranties, and when they start to bleed cash, prices are increased to reflect it. I think CR is better than JD because they track the vehicles longer, but both offer good information to consumers.

 

The short block now has a singular part number for both non-Hybrid and Hybrid.

11410-F9160

So anyone saying that the Hybrid block was ever externally different does not know what they are talking about.

 

“Now” has. Did it not used to be the same part number?

 

Did some of you miss this?

Special Service Campaign for the 2022-2024 Lexus LX 600 - 24LC04

"Lexus provided certain specifications for horsepower when the LX600 was introduced into the market. It was recently discovered that these vehicles may have a horsepower rating lower than those specifications."

Mid July 2021 through Late May 2024

This has been confirmed by multiple owners with it now being present in their Lexus app.

 

It did not, but having seen both blocks in person, they were the exact same but with a different part number.

 

They were the exact same to your eyes? Or you had engineering documents that showed they were identical? Early on we were told there was a variation between the two related to the hybrid hardware. All
Of this is just some dudes on the net spitting info, so it doesn’t really mean anything I guess anyway.

 

ya, we saw it.

you'll have to decode that from not Ryan language into what this means for the tundra for us.

are they lowering the output now under the table?

 

Both.

 

It simply says to me that Toyota/Lexus have not been on their A game since COVID started.

It's laughable that it took them 3.5 years to even notice that they didn't program their highest priced product correctly.

 

Is this being fixed by an ECU reflash?