For those that carry: is capacity a major factor in what you carry?

I'm not gonna chime in on the comments here ( most are gonna easily tack on +5 years to your sentence ),

Which posts are verbooten? PM if you like, I honestly want to know your thoughts on this.

On pistol modification: say Crimson Trace laser grips not put on by a licensed gunsmith. Would that be an example of "nails people every time?"

I know Massad Ayoob (who we all know and love, or should at least) has said the same viz "only carry what rounds local police carry" but I've read on other forums that's been debunked. Can you give us cases we can look up ourselves where that was in fact, used to successfully jam up the victim?

I saw a video where Massad Ayoob advocated for the carry of Lehigh Extreme Penetrator ammo in .380. (The all-copper bullet that looks like a Philips head screwdriver bit). What's your thoughts on this?

Interesting to bring up the "Rust" case. I never doubted Alec Baldwin would get out of that one but I found it pretty ironic given some of his comments regarding police-involved shootings that he'd shoot and kill someone.

I am close friends with guys that do the three things you warn against! Mod their guns, carry odd calibers, carry specialty ammo. I did warn the one preacher (yes preacher) about the specialty ammo (RIP rounds). He continues to carry those.

A friend shot and killed a stalker who had hidden behind a GF's hedge and ambushed them when the GF opened the car door. Justified shooting but yes, cost him $50K to beat the rap. I think the main issue was he was exercising his rights without paying the tax (no carry permit). Sometime later his sister was ambushed and stabbed many times, permanently crippling her. Attacker never ID'd. I suspect it was the former stalker's family.....apples falling close to trees and all that. True, something to consider.

Finally, and I'm sorry to overload you, but I see you are in New Mexico. What's your take on the reports that the governor recently offered a lower tax burden on businesses in areas police will no longer patrol?

How would that affect, say a victim that used a .44-40, lead bullets he cast at home, into rounds he loaded, after making his own black powder, while wearing a "Slaytanic Wehrmacht" shirt? (I'm being a bit snarky here) but say he used a the 5.7 that you suggested never be used?

 

A lot of what you said struck me - but especially this. It almost seems you’re suggesting people forego carrying a weapon because of what bad things might happen after they shoot someone…

let me tell you - if I ever shoot someone I’ll be damn glad I had my gun with me that day - even if I’m loaded up with ammo named something someone might be offended by.

 

Is this like the Black Talon rounds that Bill Clinton (somehow) banned that were then simply renamed Ranger or something? What did they rename those as? I am almost certain those are still in production.

My boxes of Speer Gold Dot are labeled "Law Enforcement." How much should I pepper my angus? Oddly enough, the reason I tried GD in the first place was due to Ayoob's printed advice of "carry what local police carry." Well I asked and they said "Gold Dot."

The 230 grain standard pressure round shoots to point of aim with low recoil in my Kahr .45.

 

Starfires were another “razor” expanding round.

I carry Federal HST which seem to be a modern and socially acceptable Balck Talon.

I’ll have to find it - but I remember learning about a legal case where a shooting victims family sued Winchester saying the Black Talon ammo was a defective product because it inflicted excessive damage. If I recall correctly, Winchester was granted summary judgement and the court essentially stated that since the ammo was designed to neutralize threats, it doing more damage was indicative of a good product not a bad one.

 

I stoked my Kahr P9 with 124 grain Starfires for about 8 years until I watched a video of those not expanding in gel.

Don't carry a 9mm Luger anymore so moot point.

Black Talon became HST? Wow, the HST is an impressive gel performer......I have some in .45 but never tested how they print in my Kahr.

 

Black Talon became Ranger SXT. The Federal HST just act the same.

here is that case -
https://www.casemine.com/commentary...ufacturers:-mccarthy-v.-olin-corporation/view

 

Looks like he got some "special treatment" with the no cash bond, sign of out jail deal.

We can hope he gets a few years out of this but not looking like it to me. Hopefully the victim makes a full recovery and this guy sells his house to pay for it.

 

Ah ha! So my memory was correct!

If my wife, kids, whatever tried to sue the tool maker for crimes committed with it, I'd come back from the dead to slap them all silly!

Did Long Island or the train operator ban the carry of arms?

 

You can't get a license without getting a permit first. And with a permit, the vehicle must be operated only under the supervision of a licensed driver. But it is a bad argument altogether. Driving is a privilege. Bearing arms is a natural right to all and also codified for us Americans in the Second Amendment of our Constitution.

But either way, I don't think it is a bad idea for training of teachers if they carry in schools. We can argue from here on out on the level of training but I'm not getting into that discussion.

 

The EXACT reason I have US Lawshield. Only a couple of hundred bucks a year.

 

I had USCCA until they dropped the (admittedly stupid) client when he shot a cell phone bully in an airport. If there was any time for pepper spray it was that time......but they dropped him and I let my membership go.

They called at least twice, both times a different story when I referenced the above example. "Oh he wanted to go with the public defender." "Oh he just forgot he had our insurance."

Right.

Anyway, at some point, may pick up some insurance again but insurance does like to drop clients whenever possible! I'm looking at Attorneys on Retainer but money is tight these days.

 

Doesn't the secret service use 5.7?

 

I believe so, however, unlike us, they have qualified immunity.

maybe even super-qualified immunity...if such a thing existed.

 

Agreed, but the point is that the caliber is used by a law enforcement agency, which makes it harder for a prosecutor to label it superkillerracistdeathammo or whatever the term du jour may be.

 

given all of the above.....

Here's the choice:

end up in the morgue
or
end up in court


I reckon I know the consensus of the group.

 

It is better to be judged by twelve than it is to be carried by six.

 

Howdy all,

Following comments have been interesting and predictable. As I said before, and will say again, I am not stating if you should or should not carry. That is a personal decision and I fully support either choice. I've been in the firearms industry for 30 years and absolutely love it, fully and 100% supporting the second amendment. I want nothing more than to support and offer food for thought for those who have chosen to carry a firearm.

I've been pondering some ideas to share, and it's hard to condense all aspects of this topic in a few posts. Heck, many gun writers have made careers hashing this stuff over, so a few posts on the forum isn't gonna shed much more light here. That said, here are a few questions I have been asked during my time ( early in my career / and not LEO or military ) which have really stuck with me. Again, just food for thought to provoke reflection.

1. How many people have you killed in a civilian status within the USA borders, outside of your residence?
2. How many shootings have you been involved in with the same above criteria where you discharged a firearm?
3. Of those incidents, what have been the results and were they to your satisfaction?

My answers were zero across the board.

And my training partner at the time had dusted three as a LEO and both his personal and professional world was an active sheat storm.

He looked at the G20 on my hip with all fruit salad I had set it up with, shakes his head, and basically says; "Rolling the dice on something you know nothing about, have no experience with, and fraught with tragic consequences. You must think lottery tickets are good planning for retirement. I mean, some people win, why not you..?"

Good food for thought.

Gonna step away from this thread and return to the truck world where I also know nothing about, but I'm learning and so far have only gotten stuck in the rocks once. Looking forward to changing my own transmission fluid for the first time.! Easy for you guys, but I'm sure I will goof something up.

Be safe friends.

 

If only more people made this a religion. This cannot be overstated in any way, shape, or form.

And one more touch; take an afternoon and track down an attorney in your area. Meet with them and ask a few questions. Most good attorneys will take the 15 min or so for a meet and greet. Put that # in your contacts. Starting your search for council from the police station isn't ideal. If you've taken the effort to prepare yourself for danger by carrying a firearm, take the effort to establish a relationship with an attorney. If you use the first, you're gonna need the second.