Tundra engine recall - interesting news

This does not prove that nor does it state that, it has / Hybrid in the notes and that is the only place it appears. The main title has 22 plus Tundra with no HV listed nor is there any specification within the notes that provisions a Hybrid engine other than the top heading. Also Hybrids have no regular alternator so the tech tips are not even written for the Hybrid. Maybe Toyota meant that those Hybrids that have failed would have to have their blocks disassembled and reassembled with the block from this crate motor but most of that bulletin that you posted is written for the non Hybrids.

The only thing that would prove a 22-23 Toyota tundra hybrid has the same issues would be a recall notice from Toyota which may or may not come.

 

Oh totally. Of course they would deny. But denial is not proof of guilt. (And neither is accusation.)

But where does the burden of proof lie? An oil change is a very simple thing. I think there would be evidence they screwed something up. The dealer was the next shop to touch the truck (unless, as has been pointed out, there is a 3rd side to the story and the truck was monkeyed with between).

You would? Really? Even though Toyota is in the middle of replacing over 100k of the exact same engines in an unprecedented recall for this exact problem (bearing failure due to oil starvation/lack of pressure)? And there are other 2024 failures as well?

To me, the fact the dealer is lying about the engine failures (saying they all occur within 10k miles) makes me far more suspicious of them than Take 5.

 

“This exact problem”? Really? Where did anyone say the bearings in the recalled trucks were failing due to oil starvation or lack of pressure? Did I miss something or are you just making shit up? It’s not even the same bearing as another member pointed out.

 

No, it is not always a main crank bearing. In fact, multiple posts in our very small 3.4 engine failures thread report failure due to an oil starved rod bearing.

It is not always the one crank bearing.

No proof of foul play means this should be a warranty repair, end of story, especially when many other trucks are failing in the same way.

 

LOL. I find it hilarious when people make definitive "end of story" comments, when they have no clue what the actual story is. it's just speculation based on one disgruntled FB post, or wherever it came from.

 

The psychology of other 3rd gen owners wanting the blown engine NOT to be warrantied is interesting.

 

I think it’s hilarious that we can read the actual service order, and people will continue to insist there’s something else to the story, when in fact the engine failed within the powertrain warranty (and failed in a common enough way to generate an unprecedented recall).

If it’s not user error, it means the issue isn’t solved, and nobody who owns one of these trucks wants that to be the case.

You would probably have a better idea, but if this were happening to me, I would be gathering examples of spun bearings, especially rod bearings, covered under warranty or recall to have my lawyer deliver to this dealership. And I would show them they are flat out lying about the mileage they say all of these failures happen under.

 

The same principle has been studied in legal cases - it’s been proven there is a substantial bias against plaintiffs in medical malpractice cases because everyone on the jury relies on medical professionals for their own healthcare and they don’t want to believe a provider can be so incompetent so they dismiss compelling evidence as “not believable”.

 

I think in this particular story what some people might be missing, is that Toyota is a good customer to the dealers. By that I mean while most technicians complain about warranty rate, the service department/managers view warranty work as "free" money. There is no selling to a customer, this part failed, they can not see any outside influence for the failure, replace failed part and get paid. Now the dealership on the flip side of that has an obligation to not "scam" Toyota and do true and honest warranty work. Toyota will keep dealers in line with this by calling back random warranty parts. The technician on this particular job is not the final say if this motor is warranty or not, but he must present his findings to someone above him (on a warranty claim of this size) to make that call. I would stand by the idea that we are NOT getting the complete story behind THIS PARTICALUR engine failure. Someone, whether that is the tech or service manager, or the dealers FTS, found SOMETHING to deny the warranty claim on THIS PARTICULAR claim.

 

Here you guys go again with your assumptions and leaps in logic. I can guarantee you every single 3rd gen guy on here wants that truck to be fixed under warranty! We just don’t like this concept of you second genners finding bad news that’s half truths and unverified and then extrapolating that all the new Tundras are doomed and you were right all along etc.

 

No jabs/pokes here, promise, so please don't tear apart the question. Knowing what you know today, would you have bought your 2022 knowing your engine would need replaced eventually under warranty. Or would you have waited a few years to upgrade (if that was your given situation)? IMHO, that's the camp most pre-Gen 3 are in.

My case, I wanted a V8 just because lol, simple engine, would most-likely last (tired of truck payments), and fits my needs as a consumer.

Edit: Family & camper hauler, brought both my kids home from the hospital in it. Safe, reliable, etc.

 

Funny story. I once was interviewing an engine engineer and said something like "I'm surprised you are making these complex engines compared to a more simple engine like a V8."

His eyes about came out of his head. LOL.

He said something along the lines that he would argue a V6 or inline 4 is much less complicated than a V8 even with a turbocharger on it. You have two less cylinders to worry about with a smaller engine.

Your comment reminded me of that conversation.

 

I mean, it’s not like this is the first 2024 to fail. There are at least three on He-who-shall-not-be-named’s spreadsheet.

Far be it from me to fail to provide every bit of info I can. Owner started another thread on another group. There are a lot more comments and more info. At this point:

• Dealer gave owner a bottle with 4oz of oil with metal shavings in it
• Dealer tech who tore down the engine cited low oil pressure as the cause yet did not verify low oil level or cite any codes in the truck and proceeds to blame last oil change with zero evidence
• Owner found a lawyer and has called Toyota corporate
• Toyota is sending someone out to inspect the engine this week
• Owner owns a business with multiple trucks and has a fleet account with Take 5
• Owner bought a GMC Sierra to fill the gap in the fleet while this is sorted out

My hope is that Toyota solves this for real. To everyone’s benefit. It still kinda doesn’t seem like that’s the case.

Buy whatever you want, whenever you want. Just do so with all the info.

 

I would absolutely, unequivocally have bought it with what I know today.

Whether I would have bought it before I knew they would replace the engine, that’s a different question altogether. There was a bit of a stressful time before the recall was announced where I did not know what would happen if the engine failed outside of warranty. I would have been fine with a 10 year warranty probably. I’m doing oil analysis every oil change to keep an eye on things and will be trying to push the replacement off for as long as possible. I’m not burying my head in the sand either. I know there is a chance my motor can fail without warning but I believe the chances are small enough that I’m willing to roll the dice.

This truck just drives so much better than my 2012 Tundra and I’m sure there are many owners like me out there. I just get frustrated when it seems certain people on here have already made up there minds and anything negative they can post on here will prove their point of view and no one can question the validity of their info.

 

The basic architecture is not the problem in terms of complexity, two more or two less cylinders included. Even a forced induction system is not a complex issue some might think.

It is all the other mandated crap that destroys the service life longevity of engines these days, not matter what it is: EGR choking with soot, DI crudding up the intake valves, air injection pumps, quick light high load catalysts that cost a fortune to replace, DEF injection, stop-start BS, DoD systems, plastic parts like intake plenums and water pump bodies that warp and leak, variable displacement oil pumps that are belt-driven, crankshafts without keyways, all, with the cherry on top of generally poor or impossible service access to any or all of the above.

 

GPFs are coming as well.

 

If all that stuff is awful, how come trucks are lasting longer than ever?

 

Of course. Airplanes last even longer, but just look at the costs of maintenance to keep them airworthy. Getting everyday workhorses to that level of complexity (I never said awful - just that the complexity lies in such components, not the architecture of an engine) can work only if the associated costs and infrastructure to maintain them properly is given due consideration, and none of that is even mentioned by most.

 

Sure, new vehicles cost more when they break down to fix. You can't be a shady tree mechanic. I'd argue, though and through my research as well as talking with owners, new vehicles break down far less than older vehicles that you could work on.

 

Agreed, unexpected breakdowns are indeed rarer, but the routine servicing costs to ensure that remains the case rise exponentially after the warranty is over.

Having said that, a fresh sheet design with reliability and long term serviceability built in would beats the pants and skirts off of everything currently out there, but nobody can or will make one. For example, trying working on troubleshooting a modern dash or a climate control system with one from yesteryear. Both serve the same purpose, information display and temperature control. Which one would you rather have or work on, and why?

 

I own a 1962 C10 and I buy new or review trucks all the time. From a service standpoint, I’d want to work on ‘62. From an ownership standpoint, I’d much rather drive a new truck. It’s just two different ways to look at it.

 

What odds would you offer me that your C10 will still be running 50 years from now compared to any new truck?

Imagine a modern day version of the same C10 with the same level of long term serviceability. Where can I buy one? Why not?

 

Running? Sure. I worry more about electrical issues than engine concerns. Like with this recall, I wouldn't worry about the replacement engine. I'd worry more about all the copper wiring. And that comment on recall was to make sure @Breathing Borla could see I was staying on this thread's topic.

The thing is people tell me they are going to keep a truck forever. Then, they come back to me in a few years and say, "well I'm truck shopping again because I got bored." I've been doing this job for 15 years and I see that time and time again. The average ownership of a truck is right around 5 years.

So, saying the truck will be running for 50 years is rather pointless when most consumers get bored anyway. Plus, there have been many innovations in the automotive market in even the last 5 years and people do actually want those features like hands-free driving, the larger screen, Apple Carplay or Android Auto, etc... I can tell that in my video view counts. For every one person who tells me they "don't need that crap," I see 10 more people who want me to deep dives on that "crap" because they want to learn all about it.

For your second question, people don't want that. Consumers, by and large, don't service their vehicles. They don't want to worry about checking the dipstick. They want the truck to be smooth, quiet and powerful. You simply can't do that with the engine technology like in C10. It isn't possible.

Sure there are going to be outliers like yourself, however, if the majority want new tech, powerful and fuel-efficient engines, quiet cabins, etc... well automakers are going to build trucks for those customers.

It is just basic capitalism.

 

Yup. That is the answer.

Hence, if the majority demands it, or are easily led to believe they want it, that is what we ALL will get. Try finding a good manual transmission vehicle these days, as a perfect example of this process. And I, for one, have no issues with this process. I get it.

What I do mind is tilting the playing field that mandates that the whole dog-and-pony show move in a certain direction rather than letting the market forces of good old capitalism battle it out. EV mandates are a perfect example of things gone awry. If they are indeed better at serving customers' needs, they will sell on their own. The auto stop-start system is another example of this, or do you think customers wanted that feature too?

To bring all of that into the context of this thread, the 3rd generation Tundra was still my vehicle of choice, given all the other options available to me, engine recall issues included. The stuff I can service, I will, but the stuff that I cannot, will get fixed at the dealer or a specialist shop. And the older I get, more of that work will fall into the latter category anyway, so even that might not be a bad thing. My back sure doesn't like crawling under a vehicle as it ages, and it reminds me of that more and more.

 

1962, that's a bloody new modern truck... Now my 1950 is getting up there, still on original motor.



But I agree, I wouldn't want to drive across the country in it. Maybe Toyota should go back to oil bath air cleaners.

 

But how about a properly modernized version of it that keeps its serviceability and longevity intact? How of those virtues would you give up for the modern luxuries? How much of that choice is really up to you or is being forced upon you?

 

LS swap it, drive across the county and back.

 

Just a comment on the stop start thing here. I agree it’s probably unnecessary and an attempt to appease EPA or whoever. I do think Toyota didn’t do a terrible job compared to others. I like how you can control it with brake pressure and after I figured out to unbuckle my seatbelt before putting it into park, it’s not a problem at all now.

 

Agreed, but most people would not be able to detect a few drops of piss in their beer either. I would prefer none, but, hey, maybe that's just me.

(I did install the auto defeat dongle on Day One of my Tundra ownership. It is better without it, despite Toyota minimizing the number the drops of piss they put in the beer glass. )

 

I'd give up quite a bit, honestly my XLT has all the tech I ever want and some I don't. Had a friend buy a brand new Chev 1/2 ton back in 2018, regular cab, 8' bed, crank windows and an AM/FM radio. That's it. Total throw back to what a pickup used to be and I was shocked it even existed.