Horrible Handling on Washboard

Man - I love my truck a whole lot but if I lived anywhere near a concrete freeway it would be gone in a heartbeat. The bed bounce on concrete freeways can be nauseating. Only consolation is watching passenger titties shake.

 

LOL! That is exactly the maneuver I often have to make when the rear of my Tundra brakes loose and bounces sideways on the washboard.

I'll try to take a video the next time I run into town. It's truly a wild ride in certain spots. Hopefully I'll keep it out of the ditch.

 

no doubt man, the roads here and my 2016 just did not get along, it would make you sick after a while.

FWIW, this truck is smooth and rides awesome, especially in comfort mode

 

I'd just like to emphasize, my Gen 3 its the smoothest riding and best handling pickup I've owned ON PAVEMENT.

It's just woefully lacking over washboarded dirt roads compared to other trucks I've owned. I realize that's a very specific road condition, and the engineers can't design for every condition.

It does appear the Gen 3 was engineered to be a pavement princess, and that's cool. It's makes our long road-trips from Colorado to Florida very comfortable.

 

do you have AVS? or did you you have the TRD off-road package, I can't remember?

also, I would be curious what the Fox Shocks on the pro and/or 1794 LE would do. but those both have P rated tires as well so that may factor in the equation.

play with exacting different speeds, that will tell you if its a wheelbase frequency thing vs your older tundras. it may be slightly slower or slightly faster may smooth it out vs the older truck, Im not saying be a drift king, lol.

and ya, at this point for me and getting older, I really appreciate the better on-road ride, and towing performance. I LOVE the AVS and auto leveling air system on mine, its light years better for me

 

As I've mentioned twice in this thread, my truck is a non-TRD, non-hybrid, non-lifted 1794. No AVS. The only mods are a tonneau cover, and slightly larger than stock 275/60R20 tires.

I was hoping someone had already upgraded their factory standard "black" shocks on an otherwise stock non-TRD suspension.

I will look into the Fox shocks. I've also had good luck with Bilsteins in the past, so they'll also be a consideration.

 

Dobinson IMS front and rear

 

I know you're far from a Toyota dealer , but I wonder if you could test drive a TRD model and a pro model to see if that makes the difference.

kinda a free way to do a diagnostics and know the fix will work prior to swapping parts.

 

I'm not fond of the way my Limited TRD OR handles through multiple bumps or broken pavement. It's great on most pavement but multiple bumps it will shutter and I'd imagine on a bad road or gravel it could kick loose. It seems very similar to a 2013 F150 I drove a lot over gravel roads. That same road a 2014 Sierra AT4 rear end handled like a dream but the ranchos were brutal for comfort. I switched to Bilstein 5100s and it fixed most of the issues with the Sierra. It's very shock/road/tire/truck dependent. The box length could even make a difference from truck to truck. Anyways, I'd go with trying Bilstein 4600/5100 shocks to smooth out the ride.

 

As has been mentioned several times - quality shocks should make a significant change for the better.

I was also going to inquire about AVS or air suspension, but @Breathing Borla beat me to it. The reason I was going to bring it up has to do with ride quality issues with earlier 3rd gens with air ride suspensions: the vehicle was bottoming out too quickly. The fix was to adjust the ride height sensor for a slightly taller static ride height, giving the suspension more travel before bottoming out (edit: and more time for the shock absorber to work without reaching the end of its stroke).

Since your truck is a non-TRD, non-AVS vehicle, I *think* it comes with a linear rate coil as well as slightly shorter ride height. If these two things are in fact true, it would contribute to less suspension travel in the rear, and the vehicle blowing through what little travel is there. I believe the TRD's (and a few other trims) come with a dual rate coil for initial compliance but better bottom out resistance.

My point is, I wonder if you need more travel to keep from bottoming out. Not a drastic amount, mind out, but I think a little more travel like and inch or so would be beneficial. Combined with a better shock absorber and you should be able to better dampen the rear end.

I had an explorer with the automatic air ride over leaf spring in it; the shocks were toast and the very soft factory springs were worn, so the air ride like to sag the suspension out. Loading it up with stuff would actually cause a high pressure fault as it tried to level the vehicle out. It kicked sideways like a bucking bronco, even on certain bumps in the road at 50 mph! No bueno.

I was able to source some shocks that were compatible with the air ride system but lost the variable damping; it helped significantly, but I'd still occasionally get a pressure fault. So I installed an add a leaf to the old leaf pack to restore ride height. That also made a significant difference in ride quality. A little more ride height and some better damping made a HUGE difference on larger bumps and washboards. No more kicking sideways.

 

That's a thought for sure, but the travel distance and hassle of dealing with high pressure salesmen makes it less than enticing.

 

I get it but it would be worth it to know it was going to work before you started spending real cash on all this other shit

 

Thanks, but my truck is far from "bottoming out" on the washboard I drive on. It's bouncing around within the limits of suspension way too much. No contact to the road.

Honestly it's pretty disappointing, since I thought the coil over rear suspension would be an improvement over my 2015 Tundra. Not even close.

 

What you are describing is shock tuning. Those stock black shocks are for road comfort not off road performance. Shocks with High speed compression and rebound adjustments you could dial it in just how you want

 

Ok.

Do what you'd like but you've got three pages of guys suggesting you change out your shock absorbers as a first step. That should be pretty obvious. Unless they changed recently, the black Hitachi/Tokico/Whatever brand shocks are small twin tubes, which means the active piston is woefully undersized for controlling abrupt and repetitive suspension motion. There is an inner cylinder (tube) with the working piston, and an outer cylinder which is the fluid reservoir and heat sink, making the actual valving scheme difficult to control simply due to reduced surface area of the piston. Great ride on road, but horrible off-road as you are finding out. They essentially lock up (either lock up or cavitate and give you zero damping) with oscillations, which is why the suspension is kicking sideways. Twin tubes are fine as long as they are sized appropriately. Look at something like the Iron Man Foamcell Pro as an example - much bigger overall shock diameter to get the control that is needed. (not recommending them or suggesting that they are suitable, as I have no experience with them, just pointing out that even with that huge OD shock, the piston isn't much bigger than a 5100).

Second step would be tires and wheels. One inch of sidewall reduction results in 16% less sidewall at these tire sizes. If you look at the sidewall flex on a bellcurve of sorts (you don't want the outer edge of the tire folding over, and you don't want the bead folding over), and assume the an inch of shoulder and an inch of bead DON'T flex, you are reduced even further to 24% less sidewall flex. That means the tire needs to be 133% stiffer to maintain the same resistance to folding over. Those numbers are working theory of my own concoction, but they seem to jive with reality. Lots of guys going from an 18" tire to 17" tire for the exact same reason, and that's on 1/2" difference in sidewall.

Third would be more travel. Theres a reason why most aftermarket coilovers have some amount of lift built in to them - to give you more up travel, giving the shock absorber more time to react to road inputs without needing to choke the fluid off immediately. I think you would be surprised how little up travel the gen 3's have, and how easy it is to go through. I used the Factory Air Ride example above to illustrate a factory, unloaded gen 3 is quite limited in up travel. If you look at how a coil spring behaves vs a leaf spring, you will see the two big differences are that a multi-leaf pack is progressive by nature (more up travel equates to more spring force) and that the leverage ratio is much different than a coil - coils are virtually 1:1, leaf springs are not. Your old tundra had leaves, which were progressive. Your new truck has coils, which most likely aren't - or at least aren't as progressive a a leaf spring. And there was more room between the bump stops on the older trucks.

I've run airbags on my truck for years. They limit up travel. I know this and accept the tradeoffs. The truck still rips off-road, but it would be even better without the bags - MOSTLY. If I have too much weight in the bed, airing down the bags actually makes the ride worse as I'm limiting up travel. I still have plenty of spring force to keep from "completely bottoming out" (6 leaves in the leaf pack including the factory overload) but I'm severely handicapping the shock absorbers by not giving them time to absorb road shocks. When one of my bags started to fail, I removed it and put together the 6 leaf pack, then put some better bump stops on. The truck rode better than I ever recall it driving. But it only handled my mid-weight trailers with ease and was taxed by my heavier trailers - suspension-wise. Why did it ride better? More up travel, more time for the shock absorber to do it's thing.

Which leaves me with a final suggestion - try upgraded bumps from the likes of Perry Parts. I think they would help, but still won't cure the issue.

Just saying that perhaps you should embrace and thoroughly research three pages of suggestions that are mostly repeating the same things before immediately dismissing them..? Maybe even spend some coin and find out what works for you. $600 on some 5100's on a $60 or 70k truck ought not to be a stretch, I wouldn't think. A lot cheaper than ending up upside in a ditch, IMO.

 

TLDR..I might get back to it.

 

Wow, what a dick. I answered your post in the 2nd and 4rth reply to this thread.

Just because you think you know doesn't mean you do.

After 3 pages and Blenton taking the time for the informative and thought out post, all you can say is TLDR???

Enjoy the ass end of your fully boxed frame riding on shitty toyiko black shocks stepping out on washboard.

 

Let us know how the new shocks work out. I'll keep thread notifications on for when you report back!

 

Btw, you didn't run BFG KO 3's on a 2015 Tundra. They didn't exist then.

 

This is just opinion, but I used to live next to a guy who had a 'plain Jane' SR5 Tundra that was otherwise the same configuration as mine (2020, 4WD, CrewMax). Mine is an SR5 with the TRD Off-Road package, and as such, has better shocks than his does.

Mine rode significantly better over our terrible washboard gravel roads than his did.

Granted, yes, I think there are several factors that *could* come into play (type/thickness of tires; whether a vehicle is an extended cab or CrewMax; and so on) but I personally believe the biggest factor was and is the shocks.

 

Sorry for ruffling your feathers. I was a bit busy with guests last night, and honestly didn't have time to read and respond to Blenton's long-winded post.

Now that I do have time, I see that he basically reiterated the same points that have already been made...different shocks and more tire sidewall. Got it.

I'll start with shocks, and go from there. Do you have any suggestions other than the remote reservoir Bilsteins? I'd prefer to stick with a standard style shock.

 

Thank you for taking the time to post this very informative response. Sorry I couldn't read and respond to it last night.

Do you have any specific shocks that you would recommend? Is there some sort of rating or specification, other than larger diameter tubes, that I should look for?

 

Depends on your budget, really. While I don't have a 3rd gen, I've run through several different setups on my vehicles and would be happy to share my general experiences.

Minimum bar and budget shock would be Bilstein 5100's. There's a reason they are so popular; they are an excellent step up in performance for barely any money. I think they are just over $100 each, so call it $250 shipped. Digressive valving is not for everyone but they are like the Swiss Army knife of shocks - good at most things, not the best at anything.

On either side of the Bilstein equation are 4600s (the Red TRD shocks are based off a 4600) and 5160's with reservoirs. I don't think either are offered, but I'd definitely forgo a 4600 shock. If they had 5160's, they handle washboards better and longer than 5100's. I have over 100k miles on 5160's and feel they are worth the higher price of entry.

Staying in the 2.0 realm, Fox shocks offers some IFP rears for about $450 a pair. Personally, I didn't care for them; they were the softest, plushest riding and handled washboards fine, but they never felt like the truck was settled and were always 'floating' a little. Heavy loads were kinda scary, TBH, but trailers under 5k were fine. But lots of guys like them and prefer that valving scheme to digressive.

Icon also offers a 2.0 shock, with and without reservoirs, coming in at $400 and $600 a pair, respectively. They also offer a triple rate, .5" lift coil (same ride height as TRD off-road models, but better bottom out resistance while retaining a soft unloaded ride). Personally, I'd look hard at this setup. Icon uses digressive valving, but that doesn't mean it rides the same as Bilsteins. I have a set of 2.5 Icon's waiting to be installed, but I don't yet have much personal experience with them. I don't see a 2.5" non-reservoir option from Icon but I think that would be a great mid-budget option. Mine were $700 for a pair for non-reservoir 2.5's.

Dobinson offers a larger diameter 2.6" shock (we'll say it plays in the 2.5" category) in both reservoir (MRR) and non-reservoir (IMS) options. The IMS runs $650 a pair, while the MRR are double that at $1300 and are three way adjustable. I've run the MRR's and found them to be a HUGE improvement all around, with the exception of washboards... they were very good at washboards, but not exceptional. Not much better than a 5100, IMO. But there's a chance I simply didn't have them adjusted properly (despite LOTS of tinkering). I've heard similar experiences from IMS owners, and I guess the MRR is geared more toward big tire, big offset wheeled rigs, whereas mine is just heavy. Regardless, they are much better than stock.

Now it's time to step up the budget and play in the $1000+ budget range. This usually comes with larger 2.5" bodies, remote reservoirs, clicker adjustability, and even custom tuning. Fox Performance Elite DSC, Kings, Icon VS CDCV, etc. Big boy toys with big boy price tags. Non adjustable units can be had for $1300 a pair, adjustable starting around $1600 a pair, topping out around $2200 a pair.

Why spend that ridiculous amount of money on shocks? @ColoradoTJ shows why - to make a HD truck ride smooth over washboards is quite a feat, but his setup was able to do it. The only downside to super nice 2.5 rear shocks - besides the price - is that the deficiencies of the front suspension are going to become quite glaring, so you will get a case of upgrade-itis and want to spend more and more monies on suspension.

If you decided to play in this price range, I would get in touch with @AccuTune Offroad and have them custom tune some rear shocks for you. They offer Fox and King.

If you want a mid price setup, I'd look hard at the Icon or Fox 2.0's with Icon triple rate coils. I think Accutune sells the coils for $330 and you can probably shop around for the shocks for $500-550 a set. Jack-it.com had a $50 discount on orders over $500 for example (which I used on my Icon's). Though the Fox 2.0's may fit your ride tastes better if you don't mind a little bit looser handling. Ask @memario1214 what he can do for you (no tax, for one..).

Budget setup gives the nod to 5100's. Better than what you have, super inexpensive, but may not scratch the itch completely.

Be warned, though, once you go down the rabbit hole, it's a long, expensive ride down I still haven't hit the bottom..

 

Thanks, that's very helpful.

I've been down the rabbit hole with a lifted F250 about 22 years ago, and you're right, it gets expensive. That's the truck I had a bad experience with remote reservoir shocks. In the end, all the suspension modifications never really made the truck more capable at anything, and actually made it less so in some ways. I vowed to keep my future truck's suspensions as close to stock as possible.

For now, I think I'll go the budget route with the 5100s, then go from there.

Thanks again

 

Have you tried driving in 4hi yet? I find it smoothes out the ride considerably on washboard roads.

 

I’ll chime in again.

Bilstein 5100s will get too hot on 7 miles of rutted out washboards.

Minimum you want is Bilstein 6112/5160.

Don’t lift it much and you won’t need UCA’s.

Budget $2,000 for parts and install, and I’d highly recommend another $2,200 for wheels and tires. Drop to 17s or 18s, get the tallest size without cutting anything (likely a 33-34” depending on wheel offset), and chalk test your tires for the proper PSI. And most importantly, do not buy an E-load tire unless you’re maxing out the towing capacity of your truck.

Post pictures on your new setup when you get it installed! A shade tree mechanic can easily install shocks on these trucks to save the cost of paying a shop.

Best of luck! Here’s a pic of my Gen 2 with King 2.5s that’ll outdrive my confidence level (and my frame is boxed in the backhalf). Pay to play and enjoy the ride!

 

Thanks. I will try it, but I'm curious how 4Hi would help keep the rear end planted?