2003 AC 2wd won't start after new battery install

Hello everyone. I have been following the site and just had my dad's 03 Tundra shipped to me to get it up and running. It was an IL truck that he bought used in 2006 with about 25k miles. It now has 123k and had a frame replacement done in Feb 2019 is when it finished. But it has sat ever since because the rear diff was rusted and leaking and they told him not to drive it. He can't drive it anymore and I have now inherited it. I started it Sep of 2021 without issue except jumpstarting it. I tried again to start it this past July but it wouldn't turn over but you could here the starter engage. I did find a mouse nest under the intake and figured, after searching, that it was nesting material bound up in hte starter gear and flywheel. But I didn't have enough time to try and do anything with it.

Fast forward to November, my mom passed away and I was moving my dad into an indepenant living apartment and selling there house. So i had the truck towed to the local dealership that did the frame and have them take a look at it. After quoting me $1100 to replace the starter without really checking anything, I ended up shipping it to me in TN. They did put a wrench to the crank and it did turn freely so not locked up. It arrived 2 weeks ago and we were trying to push it off the trailer with 2 flat tires and it wouldn't budge. Had the driver hook up a jumper box to make sure that the truck was actually in neutral. Accidental turned the key to start and it fired right up. Was able to drive it off of the trailer and into a parking spot by my house.

I am currently trying to get stuff done to get it back on the road. I replaced the battery as it was completely shot. I bought some used 4 Runner Snowflake rims for $300 with okay tires on it. The tires on the truck are 'brand new' but are so dry wrotted they won't hold air hence the new rims/tires. I am having issues getting the rims loose because they are frozen to the hub, so only one tire has been switched so far.

But now onto the current issue. I was told to loosen the lugnuts one full turn and try and drive it a little bit just to get it to break the corrosion holding the rims in place. I installed the new battery. There was a tiny bit of corrosion on the positive but I cleaned it off and attached it to the battery negative looked good. I have power in the cab and headlights look good but not turning over at all. I read the post about cleaning the cables and cut the heat shrink off of the cable to see if there was corrosion there and it looks pristine. I have also ready the So you want to buy a Tundra thread on no start issues. I listened carefully when i tried to start it and I could here the relay click. I even tried jumpstarting it again but no change there.

What things should I be looking for? I haven't moved anything or changed anything else on the truck except for the battery and the driver side tire. Not sure where to start.

Thanks in advance
(I'll post pictures after I post this from my pc from my phone) how do you post pictures?

 

Here are some pictures of the truck.

 

Pull the battery. Take to store. Have it tested. Before you do anything else.

I hate to say it but you probably want to check how much rodents chewed the wiring under the intake; and refresh (WITH OEM GASKETS!) the intake gaskets, and wrap the wiring in there with rodent proofing tape (pepper tape, Honda makes it)

Clean the ground under there for the starter really well. Consider replacing the starter with new Denso starter while in there, look up part number you need at www.densoautoparts.com

Before you get in there, again, have the battery tested, and you can test the starter by finding the starter relay, and with the key in the ON position, pop off the relay and jumper the appropriate terminals to fire the starter off. If it still just clicks, it’s most likely that the starter wiring or ground is fucked, these OEM starters last a LONG time for most drivers we see on here. The problem is *usually* not the starter when it comes to start issues. It’s bad terminals, corrosion in the cables, bad battery (no CCA) or similar.

 

Thanks @Shifty I have been reading a lot of your comments and posts. Thank you for all of your hard work on this site.

I'm not sure it is the battery as I am getting the same result trying to jumpstart it now. So, I am leaning towards the battery terminal connections as that is the only thing that I have messed with since getting the truck here and the jumpstart to off load it from the trailer. The truck is sitting at an angle right now (battery tray area is the high side and there was some water in the battery tray when I went to install the battery as it was out for several days between taking the old one out and getting the new one in. We had several rainstorms move through during that time, but the hood was closed (Lower Middle Tennessee).

Is there video (I can search when I get home tonight) that shows the jumpering of the relay to bypass it? I haven't tried this since the mid 90's on old GM vehicles which was a much different setup than our Tundras. It's been a long while since I have had to do anything like this level of diagnostic troubleshooting. I have replaced radiator and starters in my 99 Accord and 03 Odyssey. But they were pretty easy to diagnose and replace. The couple of times that I have gotten it started, the starter seemed very strong, and the truck has started very quickly.

I will disassemble the battery connector and check it better, hopefully tonight and if that looks okay, I'll take the battery back and have them check it out. I got the battery from Advanced Auto Parts if that matters.

 

Is this the current price for an OEM Starter Relay from Toyota dealership?

 

Yes, it is, how crazy is that? And the stupid part is, the store brand generics, as others have found, don't work with a shit, or don't work at all. But Denso makes the relay, so skip Toyota and buy the Denso part. www.densoautoparts.com to look up your part.

 

Hold - looks like Denso isnt' cross-referencing the part. Bosch will work in a pinch, as I found out. I'll try to dig real quick on a suitable replacement. But I wouldn't buy a relay yet.

Also note: Rodents love crawling under the intake manifold and chewing up the starter wires.

And ... Video for jumpering the relay here and general start diagnostics for a 2000 is here, and it may not be 100% identical to your 2003, but it should be in the ballpark - watch the whole video, not just the jumpering part:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jWouSQYTnU​

 

Coworker gave about 3-4 feet of 16-gauge wire so I will be trying the jumping either tonight or tomorrow. I'll watch the video when I get home. Thank you so much @shifty`.

Question on some of the no turn no start threads. There was mention of factory alarm issues. Does the 2003 AC have an alarm? Just want to rule that out as well. It is a factory original key, and the fob has a Toyota symbol on it.

 

Won't be messing with it tonight. It's already getting dark, it's 34 degrees out and windy. Hopefully tomorrow will look better.

 

Your truck probably has factory keyless, and if the remote is football shaped, it's the older RS3000 system, if it's candybar shaped, it's likely the RS3200. But neither one of those supports immobilizer.

You need to look under the dash to see if there's an aftermarket alarm installed, though. Look for any wire splices.

But also watch that video, note there are fuses involved, and try to jumper the starter via the relay socket. Also, seriously, wiggle your terminals with a fair amount of force. I had your EXACT symptoms for weeks last month because one lead on my friggin terminal was loose, but it took quite a bit of force to expose it was loose.

 

Here's the key fob I have. Unfortunately, the weather is only going to be 39 tomorrow so probably won't mess with it much. I leave Monday for VA and won't be back until Friday night. So maybe next weekend for more work in warmer weather.

 

RS3200. Programming instructions are in the new/prospective owner sticky thread.

 

How about the contacts in the starter solenoid? Common issue in our trucks and you get the “click of death” when turning the key. Parts are cheap; only takes a bit of labor to remove intake.

 

I removed the relay and jumpered pin 5 location and the truck fired right up and ran super smooth for old gas and sitting for so long. I took a video but I didn't guess we can't upload those. I guess I could thro it on my YouTube account and post the link. But thanks for the jumper instructions.

 

Now test the relay.

 

This!! ^^

 

So I used a power tool battery to test that the relay is working. It is clicking when I add power and checking the switched side with my ohm meter, it checks out and is making contact.

What is the next thing to check, I'm getting power from ignition to the relay to make it switch but not getting power past the relay to the starter from the relay but I am getting power if I jumper straight to the output socket of the relay.

Edit: I'm thinking I need to check from the positive side of the battery to the input side of the relay socket. Does this sound correct. I took an AC/DC electronics class for my degree but that was several years ago and never really used the skills I learned afterwards.

 

With help of a 10 lb sledge, I finally got the other 3 tires changed. Next weekend will be electrical troubleshooting.

 

Explain please....how are you measuring or getting power you mention in first quote ?

As you may already know....
Pin 1 of ST Relay is +(pos) and Pin 2 is constant GND.

If I'm understanding your above comments about having +12vdc signal at PIN 1 of ST Relay, then you may have GND issue to PIN 2 of ST Relay ?

If you measure continuity with your OEM meter from Pin 2 socket to BATT GND, do you have continuity ?

Also, have you cleaned that NEG battery terminal since uploading the above picture

 

Here is my explanation for what I have tested. With the relay in, it is activating but the starter will not activate. When I removed the relay, I used my meter to check the relay across pin 1 & 2 which is showing good. Using a battery, I attached that to pins 1 & 2 and checked across the other two pins and that checks good when activated and open when deactivated. I have also jumpered from the battery to pin 5 socket and it did start but I did not jumper from pin 3 to 5 which I probably should have tried but I was by myself at the time.

So therefore, I am getting power from the ignition switch to activate the relay but I am not getting power across the switch in the relay to the starter. So I need to check the cable coming to the relay from the starter or the possibly the fuse in there for it.

I cleaned off the contacts inside both cables before attaching them to the new battery. I didn't have much more time to trouble shoot today because I needed to finish getting the rims on so if I needed to move the truck, I could (three tires were completely flat and won't hold air) I will be gone this week and will have to try again next weekend. If anything sounds off, let me know. I do know how to check circuits with a meter it's just been awhile. Always open to constructive criticism.

 

If there is any, this group will do it tactfully

Not necessarily for you but just a reminder for others coming along reading that. A momentary jumper should indeed make starter pinion gear engage, just don't leave jumper there too long.

We know that's good because you "jumpered from the battery to pin 5 socket and it did start"

IMHO yes....in particular from +Pos side of batt to pin 3.

I would double check that the 30A ST3 fuse is indeed good and if not you need to check continuity from batt to fuse and from fuse to pin 3 of ST relay. There should be 12vdc at one of the pins of the 30A ST3 fuse always.

 

I mistyped that, I meant the cable from the battery to the relay. Was typing on my phone and missed it when I reread before posting. LOL

This will be the next steps I take after I get back from our trip to VA. Might only have two days next weekend to work on it before leaving again this time to IL for more going through the things at my dad's house. Wish I had the truck road worthy for that trip so I could haul back the gun safe but not going to be ready.

 

So an update. Had my new son in law to help listen to witch relay was activating on key turn. The SE Relay was not clicking when I hit the key. It was the one in the picture that is clicking. Didn't get much more time to diagnose, had to go get groceries and then we had storms headed our way so didn't get more time today. Will get the meter out tomorrow and check the pathways to the SE Relay and see what's going on.

 

Lots of great info in this thread. It is possible the cables are the root problem here. A known issue. Keep us posted, please.

 

Assume you mean the STart relay and not SE ?

The relay in your pic will indeed energize when key is in ACC position. That's your 2003 POWER OUTLET relay, which is protected by the ACC fuse, which protects many other circuits with key in ACC position.

 

New update. @BubbaW @shifty`
1: I checked the fuse inside the dash and it is good and have continuity across the circuit.
2: I checked across the starter circuit for the relay and have a constant 12v across so that is not the issue.
3: I checked the 30 amp fuse for the starter and it is good.
4: I checked the circuit for the relay using the ignition switch with my daughter turning it to start and get no power across it when the key is turned. So that seems to be the culprit now. When I put it in gear when the son in law was here, the truck would die when I shifted across neutral. WHen I tried it today. It shifted back anf forth from reverse to drive no issues.

So, is the next thing to check the neutral safety switch? I will probably have tomorrow to work on it before weather turns colder and I have to head up to IL on New Years Day. I hope to get it running on its own before I have to leave. Thanks everyone for the help so far. Also found an issue where the car will start rolling when it is in park so that will be the next thing to tackle after the starting issue. I have it chocked right now as I don't dare try to engage the rusty e-brake yet.

 

Since you did get it running, even if for a short bit, it very could be an issue with the Park/Neutral SW, which is indeed part of the circuit that gives us the POS signal from Pin 1 of ST relay back to the ECM and TVIP ECU, as seen in first pic I posted.

However, I would like to make sure of a few things please.

Just to make sure, have you checked that you do indeed have continuity from pin 2 of ST relay to NEG of the BATT ?

If you used your volt meter, what pins were you on to see the 12vdc ?

Bare with me please since words mean different things to others and I can be fine with that. Power and voltage are 2 different animals in electronics, so is power and voltage the same to you ? If so what exact circuit did you check....across what pins ?

That's a whole different no good thing but at least we can't blame that on the ST Relay since it gets deenergized after the ECM is a happy lark and the ole girl is running.

Have a safe trip to IL, there's crazies out there and Happy New Year !

 

@BubbaW
I have not checked the ground yet. I will try that tomorrow morning.

The 12v DC constant was checked across pins 3 & 5.

On this context, yes, power was = to voltage. I agree power and voltage are different mathematically. I was checking across 1& 2 at the time.

Thank you for the trip wishes. I didn't want to drive on New Years eve. Better to try to be on the road with hungover people than pregamers.

 

New update. Checked the Pin2 on the relay socket to the negative battery post and it checks out good. So I started trying a couple different things. Decided to try starting it in Neutral and it fired right up with the key. Shifted to park and it stayed running. Stayed running shifting thru all the gears. Put it back in park and shutoff and tried starting from there and still nothing. Shifted down tu neutral again and it started.

Does this point more and more to the Neutral Safety Switch acting up?

 

Yes. Try measuring continuity across the neutral safety switch in park and neutral.