General Supercharger Thread

@carn_dogg just curious if they also tweaked the Torque Calculation Optimum Torque table. It would seem you'd want both these tables to
jive with one another. TRD tune has both these tables, torque/torque trans values almost identical.



Disregard tab showing Ignition Efficiency above, i was overlayed on that table. Here is tab for Optimum Torque.

 

They did not. He only touches the trans side. Not sure the ins and outs of why, but I know he is only focused on the trans table

 

Optimum engine torque is adjusted when you change your desired airload. They are inverse of each other. Optimum trans torque can be adjusted without changing other values.
There is also torque reduction for up/down shift and your ignition efficiency inverses...but that's another rabbit hole. It will still apply the reductions set for shifting.

 

I kinda get it lol. So say if you drop pulley with big ass intake, headers, exhaust and making more torque, shouldn't we be increasing these torque values to estimated torque or better yet a dyno graph of torque? I'd say most of us make well above the TRD torque values.

 

The only changes that I've made to my table were to fill what looked to me to be a couple of low spots. I've been running this for a long time, I honestly can't say what difference it makes as I've not really done an A/B comparison. I did this based on a post that SlowNStock made, I'm unable to spot it at the moment, but I'll try to dig it up at a later date.

 

Local guy who I mentioned a week ago got his valvebody in from IPT so we installed that tonight and made some tweaks to his tune.





He said the truck is shifting great now! We also set the torque converter to always lockup in 4/5/6. He's going to Baja for a week and we live at 5500ft and there's a good chance of no premium in Mexico, so we put 85 octane in his truck and pulled 5deg of timing. I'll check back in in a few days, it looks like I need to pull at least another degree of timing across the board so the truck is happy with low grade gas, and then I'll pull even more since the truck will make more power at low elevation and he's already running the largest pulley I offer.

Pretty cool though, it seems like (for how I have it setup) that 1 point of octane = 1deg of timing. Always wondered how to go about adjusting for it. All said and done from 5500ft and 91oct to sea level and 85/87oct I think we'll pull probably 8deg so the truck will be happy and still have full range of its safe guards to pull more timing if need be.

 

A dyno tune would be nice but ballparking it is pretty close but not 100%.
And going over a 84mm TB changes the airload which affects shifting since it's based on airload.

 

Nice to know if no premium...have laptop onboard!

 

Bruh tell him to bring torco that’s what we do lol

 

He's then going to Alaska in the summer so wanted to do the same thing then. I don't disagree with you, but I see the point. Why carry extra shit when you can just detune the truck a bit and not worry about it.

 

Agreed as well for the detune I’d still carry it lol

 

You know them overlanders pack everything and the kitchen sink lol

 

So now this bastard who it turns out owns the company and delayed talking about management referred me to the vendor they made me buy from when I called them for pre purchase info.

Lying and playing games.

Avoid Active Autowerke!

 

Sorry to hear it man. That’s some piss poor customer service and after sales support. They should be going above and beyond imo

 

Interesting. No trans expert, but from what I have gathered you can't modify our VB, better yet, no one makes a VB shift kit like they do for say the 4L60E series. According to IPT, his words, not mine, he dares you to go and find a shift kit for our VB, doesn't exist. What they do make is corrective parts to fix issues that cause problems in our trans. The only upgrade part they make is 1 line pressure boost valve, for more pressure. Other than that the only thing that IPT and I am sure Level10 do is add heavier springs to the 3 accumulator pistons that are in the trans when you take the VB off. Those regulate shift pressures I believe. There use to be a backyard kit that some came up with for those 3 acc. I used it and you felt the shifts, but it was a rig.
I did basically all the things that IPT does to the VB with the exception of 2 VB pistons because you need a special jig to ream them out to install metal sleeves. I didn't do the heavier springs either because that's something that IPT came up with. Other than that, nothing else can be done, apparently. I did have wear @47k on 2 pistons like IPT said you would have.

 

@snivilous

Forgive the derailment. Am enjoying the present conversation. Please continue.

Can I ask you to show some side pics of where you position the Tundra trucks on your lift?

I own a lift and never am quite sure what is the correct position. Pad position on the frame would be appreciated.

I own both a Crewmax and an access cab tundra, is there much difference when positioning the truck on the hoist?

It seems my best location makes getting the drivers door open a pain as the left tower prevents the door opening enough for me to exit/enter.

Again, sorry about the thread derailment.

Kirk

In Michigan

 

I should be more specific. The valve body can only be 'modified' by being bored out, or stiffer springs, and I think a few other replacement/upgradable items. Agree that IPT replaces parts that can/will fail to make it a more reliable VB. I think that is the standard with these VB's for those that know and work on these transmissions for a living. Different stiffness of the springs causes a different delay/time in the accumulator response, causing a different length/quickness of shift. This is what I refer to as being a mechanical change in shifting vs computerized with torque management.

edit: everything I'm saying I have learned over the last 4 weeks while dealing with my own transmission woes. You could say I was thrown into the deep end and can't just let someone else (albeit a professional) fix the issue without learning everything I can about how and why it happened and how and what is being done to fix it.

 

@snivilous now that you brought up tunning for 85, I noticed something on HPT. It looks to me like our ECMs have dual fuel "tunes", 87-93. What's that all about?

 

On a side note, I sent in a sample to Blackstone just because.

 

I don't think I have any side views, so will have to go by text.

Ideally you want the vehicles CG right inline between the lift posts, if that's correct then all the lift arms will have the same moment (torque) on them. Additionally I try to spread the arms (front to back) as far as possible within the limits of a solid pad placement, the further out is just a wider footprint and will ensure the loads stay within the confines of the pads (for example a really small separation of the arms means you don't have much room for error to get the CG right if you take it to the extreme). For something like the Tundra that is considerably nose heavy, that means the CG is closer to the front axle, so the front tires will be closer to the lift posts than the rear tires. Last night all I did was pull the truck forward until the front arms cleared the front tires and could swing under the truck and called it good there. That does put it so the front doors can only open like a foot or so.

For pad placement the Tundra is easy, the body mount area right behind the wheel well is massive on the frame and a nice flat spot and pretty far forward. On the rear I extend the arm as far back as possible until the frame starts to curve up. On my smaller truck I have the pad split between the frame and the leaf spring mount, but on the Tundra that's really far back and a lot of frame curve so I put it at the last flat section as far back as possible on both sides.

 

Show me what you're referring to?

 

This is my last couple pics of the trucks.

If you look along the top of the lift, you will see a couple winch straps. I added those because I had leave the hoist free standing until I could drill the anchors.

When hoist is not in use, both are snug with no sag. You can see in the crew max pic the right strap is sagging. This tells me I need to move the truck forward to put more weight on the front arms. I don't worry about it as much when not working under the truck, so I didn't reposition the crew max.

The position of the access cab truck looks fairly decent going by the look of the straps.

I do believe we position the arms the same, so that was nice to have confirmation.

Thanks for the reply.

 

I'd guess that might be a FlexFuel tune and what's being seen are the tables for that? Just a guess . . .

 

Yea your positioning looks just like mine.

In retrospect I should've gotten the lift you have with the overhead brace. I did some calculations when I got my lift and talked to the lift certification organization, and it seemed like my lift severely came up short for factor of safety. I've never had issues with it, but it makes me nervous to lift heavier vehicles like the Tundra very high. At least having the overhead brace you have both posts pushing against each other versus just brute force cantilevered posts like mine.

 

Huge help to me as well. Getting ready to pull the trigger on a lift and need to start working layout in my shop bay.

 

In the event you want to see it, I had a NA sample done at 49,400 before going FI. Mobil1 0w-20 with 4,400 miles on it. Just a data point given your engine is within a few hundred miles of that stock motor baseline.

 

I swear my mind intrepid words how it wants to. Anyways, it's not 87-93. Under engine-spark-advance, it has spark tables for base, low and high octane.

 

Those tables are used to calculate the spark table by a bunch of equations and the trucks feedback of Knock Correct Learn and other values. The truck can globally adjust the timing (advance or retard it) based on the octane, that's why when you see people say that higher octane makes a difference is from those tables advancing the timing further. Personally, all that shit is extremely complicated and I have spreadsheets and documents from SlowNStock to try and understand and adjust those values, but at the end of the day I just set the tables equal so the truck effectively runs a predetermined timing. The big name places like OTT have those tables setup (presumably) so the truck can adjust its timing for octane.

There's simple ways to maintain those tables, like you could take the stock timing values and just retard them equally across all tables to get the timing you want and then presumably the tables can still do their thing. I wasn't a fan of that and thought that was a bit questionable and would rather just simplify the logic.

 

SlowNStock has a powerpoint I can send you that goes over the timing stuff, it takes up half the powerpoint since it's so complicated.

 

is this on the HPT forum or is this part of his coffee table book series?