Warped Rotors

Found out today my 24 warped at 8500 miles. Never towed anything nor hauled significant weight, they are the worse brake I ever had in my experience.

 

I had a pretty good shudder on my 22 with 70K. I had just bought it so I wasn't sure if the front pads were done before. 43512-0C040 is the new(er) front disc part # which was heavier than the ones I took off. They are made by Advics. I used Power Stop HD pads which were nice because they came with all the hardware and shims. I found one of my inner pads worn much more than any of the other pads. Seemed to be stuck by the hardware somehow. The pistons moved freely. I was actually surprised how easy they moved. Brakes are smooth as silk now.

 

I've screwed up rotors by over tightening lug nuts.

 

How does overtightening lugs technically impact rotor performance? What's the theory?

 

Something to do with the rotor hats being misshapen or having a slight run out I think. Maybe it was from an improper sequence. (Circle instead of star)
Just curious if everyone having the same issue has aftermarket wheels or has had work done by Paco and his 30 year old impact wrench

 

I've always understood it was more inconsistent tightening that can lead to warped rotors. In other words, one or two lugs are way tighter than the others causes the warping. If the lugs are installed with an impact wrench with no thought to how long the wrench remained on each lug, the torque will be different on each one. I've always re-torqued mine if someone else had the wheels off.

 

Mine were warped on my 22 as well. Went in to have the brake TSB performed and warpage nor noise have come back.

 

FYI, using adaptive cruise in situations when it is constantly on and off the brakes, like cruising down a mountain pass with moderate traffic, will cause the brakes to shudder. It happened to me twice, without a load, before I figured out that is was the adaptive cruise's aggressive breaking that was causing it.

The shudder went away as soon as the brakes cooled down, but I can't help thinking there was excessive wear on the pads and discs as a result. I have 19K on my truck, and the rear pads already appear due for replacement. That unacceptable, IMO.

 

Traction control uses rear brakes to control wheel spin, do you do a lot of "spirited" driving?
I had to learn to control myself, it's fun to burn a lil rubber, not so much fun to burn the brake pads.

 

Oh it's 100% a thing, uneven torque of the lug nuts places uneven internal stress though out the rotor itself. Repeated heat cycling from heavy or even normal usage is going to cause the internal stress of the rotors to eventually cause runout issues (wobble) of the rotor that in time will causes uneven wear of the rotor surface and thickness variation which causes pedal pulsation and steering wheel torsional shake.

Most quick service bays or lube rack guys on "on the clock" doing tire rotations or tire services and just give a couple uga-duggas with an impact wrench and call it good. Probably don't even own torque wrenches themselves.

 

I’m a 62 year old man. My “spirited” driving days are long gone.

Unfortunately, I think the Gen 3 brakes are a victim of value engineering. My 2008 and 2015 Tundras had exceptional brake life and performance. Not so much with my 2023. Disappointing.

 

You are correct, quality is eroding.
One other factor in the warping is that on newer toyotas when the engine is shut off, the hand brake electronically engages and in the long run that can cause warping as well.

 

My 2012’s were toast at 4500 miles. I had to fight Toyota to cover it. Never really could keep brakes on it. I bet I did 8 brake jobs in 12 years.
I’ll boast I’ve already made to 6000 on the gen3!

 

You can turn that parking brake feature off.

 

Interesting. I can understand runout if the nuts are under torque, but not over torqued. My experience is over-torque results in excessive stud stretch and failure at the most inopportune time. Consider that the rotor hat is sandwiched between the thick Aluminum wheel hub and a thick steel wheel hub. If there is any runout, it's a mismatch between hub face and rotor hat which is adjusted by indexing the rotor for least runout. In addition, runout is compensated by the caliper slides (if the tundra has them) otherwise the pedal would pulsated from day one.

I suspect over torque could distort if excessive, say 100% and a few nasty heat cycles. Otherwise, if you have more than testimonial, please share.

You may be interested in reading The ‘Warped’ Brake Disc & Other Myths of the Braking System.

 

Only testimonial I have is 45 years of swinging wrench, been there, done that, made those mistakes, learned from them.

That is good reading, I have found proper break in and seating of new pads against new rotors is critical as well after phase matching rotors to hub to minimize measured runout.

Turning or machining rotors while removing metal from the rotor reduces its ability to absorb heat during operation aggravating things as well.

 

Tundras have fixed 4 piston front calipers and floating single piston rear calipers utilizing electric park brake actuators

 

Did you adjust the 'non-functional' parking brakes on those 2nd gens ? ..once you adjust the 'star' on the rears and the cable just under drivers side door, those parking brakes will hold off king kong !

I do like the auto parking brake feature and the fact they actually work from factory on the 3rd gens.

 

What is the correct torque number for 2020 Crewmax 4WD>

 

Advics is my go-to brand for Toyotas when I have warping issues (a Corolla and my Sienna are very picky). The calipers are actually stamped with the advics brand, which is how I got there. I haven’t had any warping running their pads and rotors together on the front. You can get them from rock auto too.

 

I also had some pretty bad vibrations when braking (and squeaking / squealing) and replaced my rotors with Napa in the rear, powerstop in the front with powerstop towing pads. After about 8k on the rear and 5k on the fronts, it’s been a huge improvement in performance and quality. Another thing to add in here that can sometimes be misunderstood as warped rotors is if you’re running aftermarket, lug centric wheels, without extended lug nuts and/or hubcentric rings. If you’re running the typical countersunk lug nuts only on lug centric wheels, the wheel won’t be centered on the hub and it can cause some vibrations at speed and during braking.

 

I tried looking up these Hawk LTS and it says they don’t fit? I’m also having rotor issues at 30k miles, the brake pads I’m told are still in the green rating and don’t need to be replaced. My last tundra has 200k miles and I’ve only replaced the pads never the rotors. I find this very frustrating, as well as difficult when a lot of brake sites are stating that the rotors or the pads don’t fit the 3rd gen

 

I agree with most times the rotors are not actually warped. Only brake pad material sticking to them. Often times, when removing them, you can visibly see the pad materialon one or both sides. It takes a learned practice procedure when braking hard, to go into neutral at the traffic light if stopping completely. Do not sit on the brake pedal. And braking hard is not like getting brake checked, but like a 55-0 stop just as the light turns red 500 feet in front of the intersection even. And yes... some rotors on cars can warp with too much torque when tightening. I have seen this happen myself. Lesson learned to hit mildly with an impact and come back with torqu wrench!

If you're considering replacing with aftermarket, I have had great luck with the powerstop. Especially the Z32 pads. There is a break in procedure they recommend, do it. Everything will work much better and much longer.

Hope to help and hope you figure it all out,
Mike

 

Mine are bad after 11k miles. Will be covered under warranty but still waiting for parts to come in.

 

Sorry to hear this. I live in Colorado and had warping rotors on my 2004 Titan, and 2005 Tacoma. With my newly purchased 2025 4x4 Limited Crewmax 5.5, the rotors look small to me for a 20" wheel, so this would not be my first go round with brake shudder. I've had rotors resurfaced at Autozone before but it costs nearly as much as just replacing them and doesn't last as long. I'll give Terndrerrr's method a try when it happens, which sounds now like it will be a certainty for this vehicle, big heavy truck, high mountain passes, big wheels, small rotors.

 

I want to know what other people went for?

 

That is weird. You would figure that after 3 years, the pads and rotors would be made by just about all manufs. Just checked, wow, I cant believe Hawk isn't making a pad for the 3rd gen yet. EBC pads are also good. As for your rotors, it's a crap shoot apparently. I have had bad rotors on some tundra and not on others, I have owned 4 of them. With that said, sometimes it's not a wraped rotor. It's actually brake pad built up on pad break in. Pad material will build up on some spots higher than others and cause brake pulsation, making people believe it a warped rotor.

 

I've had good luck with the Raybestos Gold rotors and pads. The nut torque is key as well.

 

Can someone provide the technical detail on how over torqued lugs can result in rotor warpage? Once the rotor hat is mated securely to the hub, how does excissive clamping the result in rotor warpage when the hat is sufficiently held in the wheel and hub sandwich? ?

2nd, if caliper sliders are working properly, doesn't this eliminate issues for rotoe runout (wapagep)?

 

Uneven torque can allow the assembly to deform very slightly. This causes a slight amount of runout as the rotor rotates and the brakes are applied. This slight amount of runout will eventually lead to greater pad deposits in one area and brake shudder. This sort of snowballs getting worse and worse with time. It doesn't take much runout for you to feel it when braking, the limit is generally around .0025" in my experience. Anything more than that and you'll start to feel it, this depend on the vehicle though.

Regarding the caliper pins/sliders, the short answer is no.

Longer answer, when working correctly, floating calipers are more tolerant of rotor runout, but only slightly. When you apply the brakes, the pads squeeze the rotor from both sides, which eliminates the float that caliper has to move. At that point the pressure from the pads (up to 1500psi is common from road cars) has effectively made it all a solid assembly.

Fixed calipers, like those on the front of the Tundra are less tolerant of runout as everything is solid mounted. However we are talking a very small, borderline theoretical, difference between the two.

97lb-ft if you have alloy wheels. Steel wheels are higher, don't remember the number off the top of my head


Most of the issues people are describing here are also common complaints on the 2nd gen Tundra. The real issue is not the rotors, but actually the pads. The pad formulas OEMs are using on newer cars don't do as well with heat. Rotors rarely warp, if ever. The white paper below written by Centric/StopTech (now part of First Brands Group, who owns Cardone, Raybestos, and others) explains what occurs.

Uneven pad deposits can also occur while driving without stopping. Search any forum or sub Reddit discussing brakes for trackdays and you'll find a plethora of information. I would be willing to bet most people that have solved the shudder longer term is due to a more heat tolerant pad. I saw EBC and Hawk mentioned, both of which can definitely take more heat. Brakes are brakes, so knowledge from track guys is directly applicable to these trucks. I race in the 24 Hours of Lemons and have personally had a shudder develop mid race due to overheating the pads.

https://centricparts.com/media/tech..._Whitepaper_B1-Warped-Brake-Disc-8-2018_1.pdf