Do you ever meet LBJ non-believers?

Send them a link to the LBJ failure thread. They'll see the other ignorant folks who failed to heed the warning, hundreds of posts worth.

They need to understand, simply, that any ball-and-joint part is a wear part. Toyota (I feel) bluntly tells you this in their TSB / federal NHTSA recall documents, that this is a required-maintenance, limited-life part. It needs to be changed.

Your friends also need to understand two other things, too. First, some of the LBJ bolts Toyota used for these were single-use-only bolts, and they need replacement. Second, the lifespan of most aftermarket LBJ parts is absurdly shorter than OEM, typically 60-80% shorter, where you'll get 100k-150k miles out of OEM replacements, whereas aftermarket LBJ you're lucky to get 5k-40k miles out of aftermarket, if you're lucky.

I don't know why it's so hard for people to believe aftermarket part quality has gotten so insanely shitty these days. It's like two or three warehouses making the same parts, being bought up in surplus by big names, and dropped into branded boxes, or parts being rebuilt from cores in sweatshops, because that's the only system that is lucrative in today's hyperglobalist economy. They bypass most if not all QA & quality control to cut down on costs, to the point DOA parts and defects are a "normal" thing. And guess who isn't paying a dime for your time when you install a DOA part, and also isn't paying a dime if that LBJ fails on you after 100 miles causing thousands in damage? Yup, YOU ARE.

It's a wild world we live in...

 

and you can probably get by with those lower quality LBJ's on a different vehicle with different suspension and design

but still why skimp on something this important?

Brakes, suspension, and timing belt are no-brainers to me. The most critical mechanical and safety parts where you're risking the life of you, your family, your friends and potentially others on the road

 

I told a friend with a first gen Tacoma the same thing recently. I feel like I can even see some separation on the driver side ball joint. Basically got a shrug. It might be how some people are wired. He's the type who doesn't do any preventative maintenance, aside from oil changes. I mean none. The "dude, your tire may fall off while driving on the interstate" warning is just another warning about vehicle maintenance, one of many that people who don't give much thought to their vehicles beyond whether it will start in the morning will hear.

It's not necessarily a matter of getting through to them or willful ignorance (though I'm sure that's true in some cases). They just aren't wired to understand or care about this stuff.

I'd like to think off-road abuse has something to do with failure, but we've seen a lot of spotless 2wd failures posted in the ball joint thread.

 

they're thinking with their wallet; and also believe they're a part of the "exception to the rule"

some people have a hard time realizing they're not special.

 

“Oh no the consequences of my actions!!”

 

Applies

 

Did you tell him about pink milkshake syndrome? I have a friend with an 06 low miles. I mentioned replacing the timing belt and maybe the radiator even though it under 100k miles. He said not now. I don't think time is a rough on these components as miles but I still think replacing them would be prudent. What do you all think?

 

I agree. The issue with the radiator is the same as the valve cover gaskets and cam seals. With lack of use/miles, the fittings on the bottom of the radiator where the transmission line passes directly thru the coolant tank dry up and get brittle, allowing coolant and tranny fluid to mix. There's pics of those fittings on this forum and how much they crumble up.

Cam seals and valve cover gaskets, spark plug tube gaskets also shrink with low-mile use. That allows oil to leak by and make a huge ass mess. And the rubber-washered bolts holding the valve cover on have their rubber shrink, which loosens the valve cover bolts, some can fall out totally.

And it's the same issue with the timing belt on low miles. That belt is made of a rubber blend, just like tires. Ask your friend, would he be driving around on tires that are 18 years and 100k miles old? It's not the mileage for him (well, it actually is! Toyota says 90k miles or 9 years), the age is the major problem. The belt can look perfectly fine on the smooth side, not show any cracks. It'll just snap. And if the water pump OR the cam seals leak, it can cause the belt to snap in a very short period of time.

Anyway ... you're gonna find people who just can't wrap their head around this shit. "It's too complicated". This is where comparing things like - say the timing belt - to a set of tires, it can really help the layman visualize the big fucking elephant in the room.

Routine maintenance is what it is. You pay a little now to avoid paying a LOT later. The longer you let routine maintenance go, or fail to understand what needs to get done, the bigger a disaster you have looming.

 

I've had detroit axle branded LBJs on my 2002 4runner for 4 years and 70k miles, checked them a week ago and no play at all. Maybe I got lucky

 

The last 2 years, I've seen:

• 2 ppl on here, 5 on FB groups who either directly checked or had mechanic check LBJ "no play", and within 6-8 weeks (some within 48 hours) had the LBJ fail. No warning.
• 2 members on here who saw no play in their joints (@KNABORES was one, and I think he posted it in this thread) but pulled them off, and they showed play in-hand, but not while under load. They had 50k miles on them.
• Seen dozens of cases of abrupt failure with no warning signs; no sounds, no steering weirdness, no evidence something was wrong.

No intent to scare you here. Just saying, luck happens sometimes. Just because it hasn't happened, or you haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it won't happen tomorrow.

 

Running with the devil man

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5txwFv-zYM

 

I didn't even check mine for play. There was a 25% of sale going on at some dealers. That was my chance to get OEM UBJs & LBJs at a good price so I jumped on it.

 

Yep, good call. Like `shifty and others have said regularly in any thread about balljoints, 'checking for play' really doesn't tell you anything with these. They seem to regularly fail long before any sign of play.

 

Hard to appreciate the play in these as they are loaded at all times with tension. Have to get the spindle loose to really check them. If you’re on aftermarket ones, assume they are just about to kill you anyday and change them out. If you’ve replaced with OEM, worth just checking them at 50-100k intervals. They honestly may not fail. The OEMs that failed in masses were the defective ones that had scoring on the joint surfaces from the factory, not the OEM replacements. But the suspension design sets them all up for catastrophe when they fail, so mine will get swapped out every 100k or so regardless. I’ll save the good ones I pull off and send them to someone as a trail spare.

 

Does someone know the torque spec for the 4 bolts that attach the LBJ to the knuckle on a 2001 4X4 SR5?

I have seen at least three different answers ranging between 37-59 ft*lbs. I have been referred to different parts diagrams, none of which are labelled with the year. Apparently it is just a complete mystery

 

I shot the gap at 48ftlb

 

Depends partly on which bolts you use...Yeah, it's confusing. I have an '02, with dust covers, and used the black bolts with washers. I used the 37ft/lb torque spec.

 

That was my next plan. I used the black bolts with washers and 59 ft lbs felt way too tight. Didn't feel right. Now I've had to purchase new bolts and the dealership gave me grade 10s with no washers.

I'm going to use 48 and ship it.

 

Black bolts for use with the protector boots call for 37 ft lbs. They hold the same as the other bolts do when they are at the higher numbers.

 

So much variation on those bolt torque specs! SMH

 

Pretty sure this guy is another non-believer....

I'm at the local Burger King and I spot a rather attractive 2006 double cab. Naturally I park rather close so I can admire it. Light blue in color.

Out comes the owner, young man, works there, on lunch break I suspect. I call out to him, compliment him, but ask about mileage. "300,000" he says. I ask about timing belt. "I looked at it, it looks fine." I mention the dangers of it being an interference engine and suggest going to this website. I also mention the LBJ's but get no reply. I wish him well.

I sit in my truck, eat my meal. He sits a bit, starts up, and moves to literally the other end of the lot and parks, sits in his truck.

Oh well.......

 

You did well. The great commission does not always convert the non-believers. But the message was sent.

 

I appreciate that. Great troubles in my life could have been avoided had the people around me---that knew what was likely to happen---had said something.

Be the change you want to see in the world.