Resolved: Installing Big Sert for TB idler pulley bracket

you said you've done quite a few so what's been your experience with the counterbore tool?

Time sert warns you it is extremely thin and therefore fragile and I read people complaining about it. Even though I was careful 1 of the 4 teeth has already snapped during the first use

I was wanting to do one or two more before I do the one on my truck. But now I'm not sure it'll survive one or two more attempts

 

I have plenty of experience with the standard wall thickness Serts, but i’ve never used a Big Sert just yet. I’ve never come across any literature about being careful with the cutting teeth on the counterbore drill bit. Maybe it isn’t an issue with the standard wall? I haven’t installed any in any steel just yet, only aluminum (cast, 50 series, and 60 series). I’ve never been careful to not break the teeth, only just to make sure that i’m still perpendicular to my work piece. Can you post up pics of the broken bit?

 

I called myself going extremely light with it because this was written in the documentation and in one of the videos I watched the guy was going on a tirade about quality control and how easy these teeth break. I didn't even realize it broke off until much later.

 

Weird, i just looked at the instructions for all my normal sized Serts, and there’s no disclaimer about breaking the counter bore’s teeth. Maybe it’s only an issue with the Big Sert? I’ve never been careful when using the counter bore on my projects.

I’m thinking that how the instructions say to use a really low RPM on the drill could be the problem? Maybe the instructions are geared more towards use in harder metals? I use a medium speed on my 18v Makita drill with the counter bore. Also make sure to use plenty of oil when drilling, counter boring, threading, and sert installation. I still can’t imagine the counter bore tool breaking off teeth in aluminum. And you’re sure you didn’t buy some knockoff brand insert?

 

Direct from time sert

pretty odd

 

I’d be making a phone call in the morning to them and see what they say. I can’t fathom the steel tool of that size breaking while counter boring into aluminum.

 

I got the drill guide and other necessary tools. Re-created the situation on my truck with a slightly off perpindicular Heli coil installation and then followed it up using the guides for the drill bit and time-sert/big-sert tap from the time-sert repair kit.

Not sure it's 100% perpendicular but to the naked eye appears close enough. And that's the first time I've made the hole where the timing belt tensioner pulley bracket moves freely after torquing it up slightly over 40 foot pounds which is about five more than the specifications for the truck

hopefully I can tackle the truck this weekend. I guess the key is just going very very slow because it is going to be much harder to see that the guides are sitting flush. Just don't have a clear view from every angle. I think I may be able to use the full drill guide without cutting it which will help but will have to remove one bolt from the oil pump housing so that it can sit flush.

Still a little uncomfortable that you can't get a good view from every angle, but I will just proceed very very slowly and doing everything by hand

 

You got this. This level of preparation will pay off.

 

Struggling to get the heli coil out. I've been unsuccessful picking the first thread And unsuccessful using the arrowhead shaped extractor tool. I think it is too deep for that to grab a hole of the coil

Scoured the Internet but nothing of help thus far

 

I know many will hate on me for this but just trying to help. I did something similiar on a vr6 once and I shit you not. I got threads best I could and. Jb weld ( strongest shit they had. It is still working ( sold motor to friend , or i actually gave it to him bc he is a open miker) . I have actually gotten the below to work too: they make it sound harder than it is. You could thread in as best as you can, good jb weld, and use small wire 18? To arc tac . Lmk if you need any tips. But. The jb WILL hold up to Vibration ect. Better then one would think. I would use rod ( metal arc weld) it woud be easier to poke in there and tac. One lil crackle should be all you need.

 

That will not work for me. My issue is that the hole is not perpendicular due to free-hand tap / heli coil install therefore it's got to be re-drilled and in-turn install an oversized time sert

 

$80 bucks. Ive used 3 times with better than expected results.

 

Ok got ya. Can you lift motor to get easier shot at it? If you do removal in sections its not too bad looking. But you will need a buddy to help you guide her up.

 

2nd times a charm. Forum is pulling for ya.

 

The right way:



The "Roadkill" way:

 

Thanks! I did not get an alert for your post for some reason. I just happened to log in to post an update this morning. I had searched high and low for that tool, but couldn't find it. Ended up purchasing the arrowhead shaped tool.

I didn't think this tool would work because I believed the Heli coil was recessed too deep - 2 threads or more

but lo and behold you follow the instructions and give it a few solid bumps with a hammer and it came right out. Still that tool in the first video is definitely the best option



my final road block is out-of-the-way.

Thanks everyone for all of the help and encouragement. Every bit of it helped me Now to tackle my big fear and install the big sert

I did do one more test install on the aluminum block so I could have a better angle to see the heli coil removal tool. Did the Heli coil install free hand and it was more crooked than what is on my truck. Heli coil removal tool worked as advertised. Then installed the big-sert using the drill guide and tap guide and it works beautifully

 

Wait - you’re done, that’s it, it’s installed? And perpendicular?

 

My 3rd test on the aluminum block haha

I did it to test the heli coil removal tool because I could see it so much better. just didn't think it would work on my truck because the heli coil appeared to be so deep. Another plus was that the Heli coil install was more crooked than my truck. Much more. And then using the guides, the big sert install was perfect to the naked eye and the tensioner bracket moved freely

that was one of my many concerns - correcting the non-perpendicular bolt hole. It passed with flying colors

 

@Weagle this saga reminds me of the soviet doctor on an antarctic expedition removing his own appendix.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonid_Rogozov

Kudo's for dialing in the process on your practice part. Sounds like you are ready to slay this beast!

 

The moment of truth is here.

Hole is drilled, counterbored, and tapped. Cleaned out the drilling oil, blew it out good with compressed air. Taking a break and then gonna put on the thread locker and Screw in the big-sert

Not gonna lie I've been terrified about this moment of truth

 

And looks like it is a fail. Just snugged up the bracket without torquing and it does not move freely at all - just as before

it is practically impossible to see from any angle other than the top to be sure that the guides are flat

 

Dang!

Did you ever swing the A/c condenser out of the way? I did my Timing belt without it in place and did most of the work through the grille.

 

It's not that - your view is blocked from the underside. Just no way to be sure the guides are flat on that small surface

you got the crankshaft gear on one side. A big lip that goes to the timing belt tensioner on the other side.

 

Damn it man!!! Was really pulling for success. Have you tried the bolt in the bigsert and checked for perpendicular to see how much it’s off?

 

There has to be something else going on. Try spacing it with a lockwasher which should have roughly the same ID/OD.

 

Is it just that the bigsert is deeper in than the original threads?

 

This big sert is actually shorter than standard because you have to have at least 6 mm clearance beyond the last cert thread so that the tool can extend all the way through the insert in order to expand those last few threads which is what locks it in. Standard is 20mm but the hole was only 23 mm giving me only 3mm i stead of the 6 required. so I had to get the next size down which was 14 mm

when I had it perfectly perpendicular on the test block the bracket moved freely. When I didn't, it was just like it is on the truck right now.


But I can't see anything off from the limited pictures I've been able to take. But it's just like your view. You just can't get your phone back there to take pictures at the same angle




I see no obvious slant in either of those pictures, but you can't get to the other side

 

How far in do the threads start is what I was referring to. Does the factory threaded hole allow the bolt to stop at surface level, but the big cert is making it pull in slightly closer?

 

Gotcha and a great question. it seems to be fairly flush. The big-sert counterbore tool is designed so that it will only go the depth of the lip/flange on the insert. Supposedly

My insert appears to be flush but hard to say exactly again because of the restricted views. This picture is a little deceptive. The counterbore tool is known to bore slightly wider than the lip or flange of the insert so the picture can be a little deceptive



I took a picture of the tensioner bracket bolt with another time sert partially screwed on. The sleeve that is part of the bolt (toyota calls that bolt a shaft) for lack of the proper term is still wider than the insert so I would think it wouldn't cause that problem. And then, of course you have the spacer as well




I noticed an oddity when I was screwing in that bolt/shaft without the bracket. it did the same with the original bolt and with the new one I just picked up from the local dealership. it slightly wobbles when you tighten it as though it is not perfectly straight. I have no explanation for it. I can't imagine both of them being bent but you could not detect a wobble with the bolt I used to see if the hole was or was not perpendicular.


It's really hard to be 100%. But it does appear that that bolt leans slightly toward the driver's front tire. Previously with the heli coil, it leaned slightly toward the front passenger tire



the effect of the Heli coil repair would cause the belt to slightly move forward toward the radiator which was supported by the location of the timing belt on the passenger cam pulley which was toward the radiator

I believe in the current position after the time sert install if anything it would cause the timing belt to move slightly toward the engine

EDIT: this thing has to be damn close. I snugged the bracket back down until I couldn't move it and I just used the slightest bit of pressure with the allen head socket up and toward the passenger side, the opposite of where It appears to lean, and the bracket moved freely

if one side of the spacer was no more than a mm thicker, maybe less, in the right spot I believe it would all be aligned

 

What about @shifty` s idea to put a thin washer the diameter of the bolt to give the tensioner bracket a little space to rotate without getting bound against the mounting point?